[fungus81]

I have a 2005 CRF 450X that is having some issues. I was out riding last Saturday at the local motocross track doing some very beginner/intermediate riding. I typically ride trails/desert and the back tire stays on the ground. Anyway, I took a few slow laps around the track before the guys with the large cojones got going.

Bike started up just find and rode fine throughout the morning. I took about a 1/2hr break and went back to fire the bike up and it wouldn't crank at all with the starter (just the semi-click) so I went to kick it. Kick starter will not move AT ALL. Even putting the kickstand up and putting my entire weight on it wouldn't get it to budge. I thought that maybe it wasn't in neutral or something and stuck it in gear and in the process of doing so rocked the bike back and forth a little. The backward movement of the bike (when in gear) freed the kick starter up a tiny tiny bit but still only allowed me to kick it a few inches or less. I put it in gear again and worked the bike backwards repeatedly, while in gear, and I hear that wherrr wherrr sound that the engine makes when gears are turning. If I do this enough it almost allows for a half/full stroke of the kick starter.

Battery is good (just got it off the charger prior to that days ride). Engine has oil (both reg and tranny). Couldn't get it to bump start and frankly, is hard to push in 2nd even with clutch in. Didn't overheat.

Any thoughts or suggestions on where I go from here? Any help is appreciated.

[JimDirt]

Welcome to the site !!

What it sounds like is the One Way Bearing for the Starter ..... it is on the clutch side (behind the clutch basket) , what it does is allow the starter to engage then disconnect once the engine fires and it freewheels , if the bearing freezes up , then the starter is basically "locked up" kind of like direct drive , always engaged , so in turn the kickstart won't work either ......

This is the starter clutch assembly

http://fiche.worldofpowersports.com/yel ... G%20CLUTCH

[fungus81]

Thanks for the response. I am a fellow Idahoan living in the Nampa area.

So, in theory, I'd only need to replace the bearing? Or would more need to be replaced in the assembly? I will do a visual inspection of the other parts but If I don't have to shell out $500+ for all the parts listed in the starter clutch assembly that would be nice.

[JimDirt]

I am going to say most likely #5, #7, #8 ,#16 , and possibly #1 is all you would need , you need to pull yours apart and evaluate what is actually bad and replace only those parts to keep costs down , it could be the bearing itself is froze/bad , or the clutch pack or the hub , it can be any of them or all of them , usually just the bearing , but depending on how it locked up , it could have damaged the hub .... so you really need to see what is actually damaged then get the parts , you can get them here , or from Canyon Honda or Carls ..... If you do not have a Service or Owners Manual , I can post up pages of the procedure from my Service Manual so you have all the info ..... , or I am sure you could get one of the Service guys to copy the appropriate pages for you so you have them in front of you instead of having to refer back to your PC every time .....

I ride up at Sagehen or Blacks Creek when I can , but lately I have been doing track stuff , at Christmas Valley , Oregon. / Hi-Desert MX , or I am always out at Clay Peak in Payette (see inset picture) , usually up top on the GP track with all the other old guys (just turned 60 2 weeks ago) , since all the young kids can't handle it and ride the easy track on the bottom , we usually have it to ourselves ...... Not really fond of OMC or Skyline , too "Bro-Show" for me ....

[fungus81]

There is a group of us that ride Danskin, Hemingway Butte, and we've done a little bit of riding out Featherville way. Clay Peak looks decent from my googling. Any cost to ride there?

I am gonna tear into this thing this week so we'll see what I find. Hoping that it is just bottom end stuff and I don't have to tear into the motor too much. I have a (printed) copy of the service manual so I should be good to go there. Thanks for the help.

[JimDirt]

Yea I have ridden all those places as well as , Baumgartner , Midvale , Horsethief Reservoir , Idaho City , etc. , have not been to Big Willow in a few years , but it has some really fun single track canyons that go up to the top then the next back down , but its farther up the road just past the cattle guard , not where everyone usually rides .... just the last couple years I have been mainly track riding , so have not even ridden my 450X in about a year (still starts right up) last place I rode it was Sagehen Reservoir about a few weeks before I almost lost my left hand at OMC on a crappy built jump ......Clay Peak is free , it is only about 2,000 acres with some single track stuff and just trails and a few tracks , there is a bottom (by the gate) and a middle and upper parking area , to me its better than Little Gem , .... lots of sand and hills to climb , SIDRA does a few races there , it rarely rains except in spring , so its usually dry/dusty , but still fun , I ride there mainly because its close (and free) ... it is not really maintained much (once a year they take a CAT blade to the bottom track)

This is me on the bottom track

I am pretty sure you will find the issue is in the Starter Clutch .... keep us posted on what you find ...... the info will always help someone here ........ I came here in 06 trying to learn about my X , been here ever since ..... nice family friendly site ..... no drama , unlike TT and some other forums ....

[fungus81]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6F43iV8cgycmC3Yh8

Out of curiosity I pulled off the oil filter cover to see what the oil/filter looked like. I saw a few other posts where folks were finding brass shavings in their filter indicating a crank failure (I think). I didn't find any brass shavings but there are silver shavings in the oil. They are magnetic. It probably is difficult to diagnose without cracking anything open but there is a partial update.

[JimDirt]

That is concerning ...... ..... magnetic is more concerning ...... The starter clutch would be located on the clutch side , so there would not be any shavings in the filter ......you might want to pop off the Ignition cover and see if anything obvious is visible ....... If you have a Flywheel puller (one for the X specifically) maybe pull the flywheel and see if it is coming apart if you do not find anything obvious like the oil pump as the source ......

If the oil pump is not the source , the flywheel or timing chain would be my next guess ...... crank bearings would be next on the list (brass would be a rod bearing) , but that is a lot of debris for a filter and either way , if you end up having to tear down the engine , you will find the source , but not the news you wanted ...... but its not looking good at this point , looks like you have a few things wrong ..... ironically , mine is on the original everything with no issues (except swapping to Stainless intake valves not ling after first buying the bike new) the engine is 100% original including clutch/piston/etc. on my 06 , "usually" these are pretty reliable engines ... not sure what could have led to this

[fungus81]

No real update as of yet other than that I have the engine pulled and on the bench ready to crack into. Here are some pics along the way. Pardon the redundancy of some of the shots...I took pics along the way so I can put the thing back together later:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6RwPPgKL98Kdjs4t8

[fungus81]

I finally was able to put a little more time into taking the engine apart and worked my way around to the left cover. I removed the cover and pulled it off. The stator was trashed and there were bits of plastic strewn about inside the casing. Upon further inspection a bolt was stuck to the inside of the flywheel. Apparently the previous owner had put a flywheel weight on the back of the flywheel but maybe didn't put locktight on the bolt? So, my thought was that the bolt on the inside of the flywheel was getting sandwiched against the stator and making it so the crank wouldn't turn...and the reason I could put it in gear and wrench back on it to get a little bit of play was because I would turn that bolt out a little and it would get to a place where it could still move freely but eventually bind against something on the stator when I tried to kick it over. Sound plausible? What are the next steps? Do you think I need to dig into the engine anymore or just clean things up and replace stator and flywheel?

Here are some pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/LJRjHFrAvoBknvWo7

[Aussiecrf230]

Hi fungus81,
Well that is a mess you have there you are probably lucky it couldn't be started.

There is a fair bit of debris.
I would be checking the oil pump to see if it sucked any up.
If it has, it probably has spread it to the other internals and top end.
Not what you would like to hear I know.
It is going to be a big checking and cleaning exercise, so hope your lucky as to how far it has spread.

[JimDirt]

Yea it definitely caused some damage , most likely the cause of the issue you were having , and like Ray said , you need to go thru every part of the engine (tranny side should be ok , just the engine parts where the engine oil is circulated , tranny is separate so it should not be contaminated) and make double sure you have removed all the debris/shrapnel , maybe even do a complete teardown , since you have it out anyway , and were expecting to possibly go thru it , now is the perfect time , then you know you have removed anything that could cause damage , maybe replace the timing chain while you have the flywheel off , and flush the oil pump pickup and pump itself , as well as ALL the oil galleys throughout the engine top to bottom , also where the oil filter is there are several holes (they align with the filter cover) take a air nozzle and blow them out (with the ignition cover off) to make sure those passages are clear , as people forget about them when clearing out debris ... I actually blow them out every time I change the oil filter to get as much of the old dirty oil out as I can

After that and replacing the stator and flywheel , you should be good as long as you do not find more damage somewhere else .....

[Aussiecrf230]

Good time to check crank and piston too, depending how many hours you have on the piston.

I have always liked the way Hondas won't start when there is a problem.
I have seen 5 valve Yamaha heads be zeroed out and still start and have the heads fall of the valves.

[fungus81]

Thanks Gents! I'll keep ya posted as things develop. I appreciate the sympathy and guidance!

[BikeIssues#63]

So Did the Stator problem fix the cranking problem. I am dealing with the same problem right now and was thinking of taking the clutch side open and get to the gears and bearing. I have already replaced the starter and battery and relay switch. my only thing I can see is the gears / bearing having a problem. I also cannot kick start. Didn,t think about that stator I hope I didn't damage that trying to kick start. My Kick start arm is not hanging up. Just getting the Click noise. I guess it is time to get some manual copies and try and take apart. Thanks for any help. Tim