cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:44 pm

    This problem started off with a non starting bike and I discovered that I have coolant in the oil…2007 crf250r. Bike wouldn’t start after 6 months of sitting. Had difficulty starting it 6 months ago…but I did get it running then. Now nothing. Installed a new spark plug, removed the carb and disassembled it & cleaned it. Still wouldn’t start. Tried starting fluid. Nothing. Cylinder compression was 52 psi. Spark plus had strong spark. Checked the oil dipstick. Oil looked like a chocolate milkshake. (Made sure I was checking engine oil-not the transmission oil) Coolant level was down about 2 inches in the radiator. I’m thinking blown head gasket. Removed the cylinder head. Lots of carbon buildup but I can’t find any cracks. Gasket doesn’t have any odd discolored or broken areas. Used a feeler gage on a granite table to check for warpage. Looks fine.
    Here’s my questions:
    I can’t find out what the compression should be… It’s nowhere in the service manual?
    If the compression is within the acceptable range, it should still start?
    If I lost coolant the last time I rode it, and there was no white smoke coming out of the exhaust, that would mean its leaking from a coolant passage to an oil passage?
    Could the non starting issue & cooloant in the oil be related?
    I appreciate everyones help and comments.
    john
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 3016
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by JimDirt » Tue May 22, 2018 11:42 pm

    First question.....did you drain and replace the gas with FRESH Premium ??? , this would be a major factor if the bike has been sitting for 2 or 3 months let alone 6 , i think that might be the majority of your starting issues

    As for the coolant in the oil , i would look into the water pump seal , if it goes bad (behind the impeller) it will allow coolant to go into the oil , which would explain why you did not find a head gasket issue when you inspected the head and gasket

    Start with that and report back your findings .... ;)
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Wed May 23, 2018 9:52 pm

    I did not use fresh premium fuel...I should have done that...
    I thought that if the waterpump leaks, the coolant ends up in the transmission oil on this model?
    I discovered today that the head does have some warpage....I didn't inspect it well last week....I used a straight edge and a feeler gage and its warped .003" I don't know if this is a miniscule amount? Would the head gasket compress to make up for it? Should I get the head skimmed at a machine shop? I didn't see a water trail on the gasket where it seeped?
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 3016
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by JimDirt » Thu May 24, 2018 2:43 pm

    These bikes do not like to start with old gas , anything over 2 months old is going to be harder to start and the longer its in there the longer it will take to start , fresh gas does wonders for starting

    As for the head gasket , there should not be any warpage , so that is bothersome , but does not mean its the cause , but if the seal is bad it pumps oil into the engine side usually , and it can also leak out the weep hole on the outside of the water pump housing , just like on a car water pump , which is why i suggested making sure the seal is good , and it could also be the impeller shaft has a groove where the seal runs and could cause a leak that way as well , as the coolant can seep past the seal at the groove that should not be there , and you would then need to replace the water pump shaft possibly , so keep that in mind when inspecting , any wear on the shaft that you can feel with your finger or visually see , is not good

    Definitely have the head checked/resurfaced and replace the gaskets , and also look closely at the water pump parts as i mentioned above , , make sure the dowels are in good shape where the head attaches to the cylinder , but generally the Head gasket , Base gasket , and Water Pump seal/shaft would be the most likely suspects of water in the oil
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:48 pm

    update: Had the head checked for warpage. Head was slightly warped. Had head skimmed .002"..installed new OEM head gasket. Installed fresh gas & coolant. Drained the oil & changed the filter. Torqued everything down according to work shop manual. Spark plug is getting spark. Compression is the exact same now as it was before-52 psi. It still wont start-even with starting fluid. I still cant find out what the cylinder compression should be. Any help is appreciated.
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 3016
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by JimDirt » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:39 pm

    Compression should be 57 not 52 , so something is off , i am guessing valves not seating or lash too tight , you did not mention what the valve clearance was or what size shims you found under the cups/on top of the valve stem indicating how worn the valves are , also a couple other things to check , you mentioned cleaning the carb , that does not always confirm that the pilot jet is clear , they are inexpensive , (about $6.00) so i would recommend replacing the pilot jet as even if you can blow thru it , does not mean its clear enough to give the proper amount of fuel , i would also lift the subframe/airbox so you can see in the rear of the carb , then twist the throttle and see if you see a squirt coming from the Accelerator Pump , the squirt should be a solid stream and just barely miss the slide , it should not hit it , this will confirm the A/P is working and also that the A/P timing is correct (it is adjusted by the screw where the cable goes around the drum under the black cover , covering the throttle cables)

    Also confirm that all 3 timing marks are aligned at the same time , inside the little round plug in ignition cover , at the cam the 2 lines aligned with the head (like this - - ) and inside the large round plug on the clutch side , the dot and arrowe should be aligned , this will confirm timing is correct

    Report back with findings ... :-k 8-[
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:36 pm

    Yes, I forgot to mention that the 3 timing marks are all spot on & the intake valve clearances were .005" the exhaust had no clearance and I bought new shims and no they are .011" I will check to see if the accelerator pump is working this weekend. When I check the compression, will I get a higher or lower cylinder number if I actuate the hot start trigger? Someone on another BB mentioned that my hot start lever could be jammed open?
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 3016
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by JimDirt » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:22 am

    Hot Start will cause a Lean Condition as its connected to the carb and adds air into the system , since it is used when you fall/crash and the bike floods and won't start , the Hot Start leans the mixture and allows more air and then the bike will start , it has nothing to do with compression , the valves will though , if the Exhaust were 0 gap , then pressure could be put on the valve slightly holding it open , which would be indicated by the lower compression reading

    So , to sum up , the Hot Start "can" cause a starting issue if its leaning out the mixture , so it needs to be checked out by removing the plunger on the left upper side of the carb (careful when removing as its a plastic nut and can strip easily) and cleaning it with Steel Wool or a fine scotch brite pad , the valves can also be a source of hard starting due to the leakage in the cylinder , as the less compression the harder it is to get fuel to burn and send the piston back down , along with the cylinder not being a sealed environment for combustion , it makes starting difficult at best ...
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:34 am

    It looks like the AP is not working. Fresh fuel in tank. Fuel valve is in the on position. So this is why it is not starting! I disassembled the carb a few months ago and replaced everything. Would adjusting the AP get the pump working? I cant get to the adjustment screw under the black plastic throttle cable cover unless I take the carb off? Thanks for help!
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 3016
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by JimDirt » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:55 pm

    With the subframe up/off as well as the gas tank , you "should" be able to get at the screw , if not , loosen the front clamp on the carb and try twisting it and see if you can get at it better , otherwise , all you have to do is loosen the clamp more and just remove the carb , since you need to most likely replace the diaphragm from the A/P anyway

    As to weather the A/P not squirting would be caused by mis-adjustment , no , it would still squirt , it would just hit the slide and cause a big bog or be hard to start , but it would still start , but since its not squirting at all , i would suspect that is the main issue , and once you fix that , there would be no need to adjust the A/P , unless once you got the squirt , it was hitting the slide , then you just turn the screw and twist the throttle and see if it still hits , if it does then adjust it till it just misses , and your good to go...
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:30 pm

    I took the carb off again & found out my main jet was fully clogged. Blasted it clean with compressed air..I must not of checked this the first time (im new to this). Benched tested the accelerator pump (gas tank above it on a bench) and I cant get the AP to work at all..i thought maybe it will still start if I put the carb back on now that the main jet is clear...put it back on..wont start. I checked the AP diaphragm and it didn't have any tears or holes in it..is there an orifice I need to clean out on this somewhere?
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 3016
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by JimDirt » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:49 pm

    Yes , look at the Leak Jet , its the jet that is in the bottom of the bowl , it is connected to the AP , its possible that since the main jet was clogged , and its pretty big , that the Pilot and Leak jet are as well , as the leak jet is not much larger than the Pilot jet
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:42 pm

    update: I just discovered my slow/pilot jet has an obstruction in it. I tried to pass a small diameter wire through it. It still is clogged. Going to try and see it I can buy a new one.
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 3016
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by JimDirt » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:29 am

    Question , when you were bench testing the carb , was the amount of gas drained from the bowl sufficient to fill the bowl ?? , you may want to check float level to make sure the bowl is filling so it actually can feed the AP , with the main jet being clogged , i am wondering if all the orifices need to be blown out with carb cleaner , to make sure there is no internal blockage , i would also check the hole where the Leak Jet is in the bowl and spray carb cleaner thru it and make sure it comes up at the lip of the bowl where it will go to the AP , i am guessing the bike sat for a few months with Ethanol gas in it , which would explain all the blockage , i would spray where the AP is as well (with the diaphragm removed) and make sure its all clear feeding the AP

    If you set the carb over a bowl/drain pan and have your tank hooked up as you mentioned , then just hold the bowl on while holding the carb upright (make sure the bottom plug is tight) , turn on the fuel flow for about 30-40 seconds , then shut off the fuel flow , and carefully drop/remove the bowl without tipping it , to see what the fuel level actually is , if its real low then you may need to adjust the float level

    Also when spraying carb cleaner , do not spray the slide as it has a o-ring that would get damaged.............
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • racerxf12004
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 pm

    Re: cant figure out how coolant is getting into oil...

    by racerxf12004 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:18 pm

    I got the AP working. There was an obstruction in the lower body of the carb. Put it all back together-wont start. Kicked it 30 times...Tried using starting fluid. Nothing. Totally at my wits end on this...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests