[apbling]

Hello All - New member, but not new to dirtbikes/motorcycles, but been a long time since I played in the dirt...

I always had dirt bikes growing up (never bigger than a 125), but have since been street only. Bikes have come a real long ways in the past 30 years, so I'm curious on ppls opinion on whats "big enough" for a 6' tall, 240lb guy to ride with his kids? The kids are very young and would be on a CRF50 for the foreseeable future. Although I don't need stupid power, I also don't want to be floggin' the poor thing with me on it, nor do I want to be uncomfortable or look stupid. The CRF230F seems reasonably priced, but is it too little of bike for me? If so, the next one up is 2x the price, 450X. I see the 250x is in there too, but just a hair less than the 450, which seems like it makes sense go w/ the 450...

Or, if I'm just mainly trail riding with my kids, would the 150F be just fine and then they can have it when they get older?

I should mention I'd like to stay away from the 2-strokes as well.

I'm not too too worried about "too much power" - I've been riding for almost 30 years now, know my limitations, and rarely come close to them, esp since having kids. I've had streetbikes from KZ550's to a 05 Z1000 to my current Harley 96" - but I don't want to pay alot for power I'll never need or use either.

thoughts?

[Back2-2]

Hello and welcome ! As for your question - definitely go the 450X. Once you rejet to let it run as EPA does not want it to the 450X is a super smooth tractor that has some serious rip to it when you want it. It is a very nice bike with high quality construction. Very easy to work on with unlimited parts both OEM and aftermarket. It is the kind of bike you buy and keep for many, many years.

[Aussiecrf230]

The 450x would probably be the better option.
You won't have to rev it to the moon so it will last considerable longer.

[JimDirt]

I agree with Neil and Ray , the 450X will pull your weight better without having to struggle pulling you up hills or thru places where you need to pull yourself out of , the 250X would be fine for most of flat ground riding and will be a bit lighter , but when you "need" power to get you thru or up a section , the 250X will struggle with your weight , and you will feel like you have a 230 , and you will have to re-spring the shock and forks to accommodate your weight as the 250 is made for a 150 lbs rider not a 240 , actually the 450 might need to be re-sprung a bit as well if you're going to do much more than putt , when i was 230 i needed a 6.0 shock spring and a 0.52 fork spring stock is a 5.5/0.47 made for a 185 lbs rider , the X is heavier but the only time you will really notice is when your picking it up from a fall , but you should have not real issues with it even in the tightest trail with your height and weight , especially after Jetting and opening up the airbox to let the engine breath and not be so lean as the factory releases it , as the leanness promotes stalling and re-jetting almost eliminates it , if you're going to be riding real slow to follow your kids , i would suggest going to a larger rear sprocket , you can go to a 52 or even up to a 54 on the 450X (a 54 will require a longer chain) , but you might be able to squeeze a 53 on the stock chain , but you would have to move the wheel all the way forward (i run a 13/52 and can go very slow without stalling and a 52 will work with the stock chain) , but that will help you ride "with" your kids better at their pace

[apbling]

Thanks guys. Looks like is 450 or bust. I was sure hoping to get some responses like "the 230 is a real ripper, just tweak this and that and you'll be good".

Also looks like I should drop a few lbs myself lol.

That being said, the 450 is over 8k, so I'l likely be looking for a slightly used one, otherwise the wife will make me sell my harley...is there any certain year to stay away from? I would likely only look at post 2000 bikes that haven't been highly modified (I don't trust anyone I don't know when it comes to mod's) or raced. Think that would be sufficient for my needs?

[apbling]

As a follow-up -

I found a couple 450's locally for under 3k (and 07 and 04) - seems a little cheap... One says was rebuilt at 40 hrs, only has 80 total. First off, is there an hour meter on these that the seller can claim that? And, it seems really odd to me that a 4 cycle liquid cooled bike would need a rebuild so soon...

As I'm looking around, I'd plan to ask to check compression and look for obvious signs of neglect and abuse (I'm very mechanically inclined and have lots of experience working on road bikes, so wear and tear vs price may be a good route for me as well) but is there any tell tale signs to walk away from the deal?

[JimDirt]

Generally when someone advertises "low hours" , and the clutch cover looks to be worn down excessively , its a sure sign that the bike actually has more hours then they are letting on , it could be they are claiming low hours since rebuild , but basically , its like looking at a car , if the brake pedal is excessively worn down , either the driver was very aggressive and was constantly driving too fast and had to slam the brakes , or the car has more miles on it than claimed , so common sense visual signs of high wear will show a bikes age unless the owner is anal like i am and cleans his bike after every ride and replaces worn parts with new ones so the bike always looks now and clean (my bikes look like they just came off the showroom every time i hit the track or trail , then after the ride they get a good going thru and freshened for the next outing)

That said , i guess it sounds like some of the bikes you looking at are 450R's not 450X's , as the X was first made in 05 , the first R was made in 02 (i have a 02 R and a 06 X) , the 02 is a good bike with the exception of the suspension takes a lot of work to get so your happy riding , the 08 was the best handling and running sought after 450R , anywhere in between has its good and bad points , for the X , in my opinion the 06 was the best year as far as stock goes , because it did not have all the smog crap that the 07 on has and it has a 2.6 gas tank , 07 on has a 1.9 which is stupid for off-road riding as it limits your travel to about 40 miles give or take total ride , with a 2.3 you get closer to 70+ miles , , so unless you want to spring for a larger IMS or Clark tank at over $200 , you're better off with the 06 if you plan on keeping the bike stock , also like the 08 450R the 08 X has a Steering Dampener from the factory (it's not like a Scotts or GPR dampener , but it's better than nothing and helps mainly with some headshake , etc) , the 09 on R has Fuel Injection , where every year prior and all years of the X are a carb , so you have to take that into account as well , if you're going to be strictly off-road/trail riding , the X might be the better bet (you can find used ones all day at around $3500-$4,000) , as the R's tend to have a tendency to stall at low speeds without the addition of a heavier flywheel or a flywheel weight added and re-gearing to a larger rear sprocket so you can actually go slow because the R gearing is tall , and a larger tank if you plan on doing over 40 miles max , so account for those expenses unless you find a used one with all the "options" you need to ride off-road efficiently , plus the X has a E-Start which is nice when stuck on a side hill or in a tough spot , you won't have to kick and wear yourself out , i have a flywheel weight on my 02 R and it trail rides fine , but i still have to kick start it

Basically you want to get a bike set up for the main type of riding you're going to be doing as there is no "one bike fits or does all" you need to pick what your main use will be and select appropriately and compromise with the rest of your riding needs , so that is up to your budget , and main use for the bike

On a related note , i paid $1650 for my 02 in 08 , so it was 6 years old when i got it , it had aftermarket black rims , a extra 3.2 IMS tank , plus the stock tank , a complete extra set of plastics , and had just received a fresh piston and had brand new tires for that price

My 06 450X i paid $6300 out the door brand new in late 05 , so it had just been released and i paid $1000 less than retail , so deals on "new" bikes are there to be found , you just have to do your research , you might need to drive 100 miles to get a good discount , but you can use the money you save to buy "goodies" and be ahead in the long run

The main "rebuilds" these 4 strokes need are Valve replacement , those of us that have figured it out , switch to Stainless Steel Intakes to solve the frequent valve replacement woes , also very important is to keep the airbox snorkle (the part in between the air filter itself and the carb) clear of dirt , the dirt getting by the filter is the major cause of valves wearing prematurely , but basically if someone tells you the valves were "just adjusted" that means the seats and valve face are starting to wear and will quickly be needing replacement , since as soon as the gap starts changing , its only a matter of time when they need replacement and the bike will no longer start , it is this way with all brands , not just Honda , on a related not ( i am a somewhat exception but long life can be obtained by switching to Stainless) my 450X had Stainless Intakes installed in 06 , and i have not had to do a valve adjustment since , i had them installed in my 02 , 2 years ago , and the same goes for it , i have not had to adjust them since , i ride my R every weekend ( injuries would be why i miss a few weekends, otherwise , i ride pretty much every weekend one of the 2 bikes
***lately i have been riding the R , i have not ridden my X since July of last year right before i broke my wrist on the MX track on my R , because the guys i am riding with , right now are mainly track riders >(i just turned 58 yesterday)< , so i have not had the chance to ride off-road this year , and since i had a heart attack in January , i wont ride alone , so i have to ride where everyone else does***) .......anyway

Compression will be low on these bikes , do not expect 150 psi , expect more like 58 psi +/- for the X , and about 64 psi +/- on the R *depending on year*, because of the Auto-DeCompressor on the cam

Hopefully that gave you some onfo you were looking for and will help with your decision making

And sorry for the long winded post , i tend to over explain when i reply....

[apbling]

Hey no worries - I'm an engineer, so I love information and details.
Here are a couple of the used ones from my area:

https://wausau.craigslist.org/mcy/d/200 ... 16132.html

https://appleton.craigslist.org/mcy/d/h ... 62431.html
This one above the guy has it posted all over, seems motivated to sell. Just noticed how slack his chain is...

https://eauclaire.craigslist.org/mcy/d/ ... 15177.html
Here's the 40 hr rebuild one

That's a shame about the valves - On my old streetbikes a valve adjustment was almost as routine as changing the oil and unless there was significant change, life went on. Those were hardened steel valves and seats, pressed into the aluminum head. (if I recall correctly).

I'm only 34, but my opportunity to be a wild man has long ago past - My 4 year old JUST started riding his CRF50 a couple weeks ago (training wheels yet, but he's doing well) and the other one is in diapers yet, so I have time. I just want to start looking because next summer or the following one I'd love to take the older one on some trail riding. Nothing crazy, no racing for me.

I grew up on a 1970 and 1978 honda 50 mini trail and still have my 1975 Suzuki RV125, but would love to get a CRF. The suzuki would likely do just fine - it's actually dual sport, has a hi/lo transmission and runs great. But it's so obscenely loud and ugly and I feel bad beating on a classic like that too too much.

[apbling]

Also, at some point price wise would it make sense to get a XR650L seeing as I'm looking at trail riding mainly?

[JimDirt]

Also, at some point price wise would it make sense to get a XR650L seeing as I'm looking at trail riding mainly?

The 650 would suck for off-road , the X is 100 times better , trust me , i had a 84 XR650R and it weighed 320 lbs and if you fell you were going to break something expensive on it , and it does not like to go real slow or do technical riding

[JimDirt]

Hey no worries - I'm an engineer, so I love information and details.
Here are a couple of the used ones from my area:

https://wausau.craigslist.org/mcy/d/200 ... 16132.html

https://appleton.craigslist.org/mcy/d/h ... 62431.html
This one above the guy has it posted all over, seems motivated to sell. Just noticed how slack his chain is...

https://eauclaire.craigslist.org/mcy/d/ ... 15177.html
Here's the 40 hr rebuild one

That's a shame about the valves - On my old streetbikes a valve adjustment was almost as routine as changing the oil and unless there was significant change, life went on. Those were hardened steel valves and seats, pressed into the aluminum head. (if I recall correctly).

I'm only 34, but my opportunity to be a wild man has long ago past - My 4 year old JUST started riding his CRF50 a couple weeks ago (training wheels yet, but he's doing well) and the other one is in diapers yet, so I have time. I just want to start looking because next summer or the following one I'd love to take the older one on some trail riding. Nothing crazy, no racing for me.

I grew up on a 1970 and 1978 honda 50 mini trail and still have my 1975 Suzuki RV125, but would love to get a CRF. The suzuki would likely do just fine - it's actually dual sport, has a hi/lo transmission and runs great. But it's so obscenely loud and ugly and I feel bad beating on a classic like that too too much.

Of those 3 i would take the 09 , just because its the newest and its Fuel Injected , the 07 is a second choice , but R's are not as trail friendly without doing a proper "off-road" setup on it (revalving the suspension , flywheel weight , Spark Arrestor *if it already has not been added* , Kick Stand if you don't want to have to lay the bike on a rock or against a tree or lay it on the ground , *some people never think of that until they are on some trail and want to rest*, and it will still not be as trail friendly as a 450X will) , but i ride my 02 off-road very easily , the only downside to mine is no button to start it , but i spent a lot of time and money to get it to work well off-road , but i do my own suspension re-valving and servicing , wheel lacing and all other work on the bike except machine work on the engine , all that ever see's a machine shop is the head for a valve job , everything else i do....... but that 09 is decently priced , but some people did not gel with the suspension on that bike , its completely different from earlier years and beyond that they have improved with each year , the 09 was also prone to stalling without a re-map of the ECU and even a flywheel weight ....again , the X is better suited for off-road without a bit of work

[apbling]

Thank you for replying.

I did some thinking the past few days and am wondering if maybe there is a miscommunication on what I'm looking for...

Like I mentioned before, I have a 1975 RV125 2-stroke. This bike would likely be more than adequate for the trail riding I have access to and would take my boys to. We would not being doing high intensity pushing our limits riding, but more like cruising through the woods/trails with the occasional twist and grin. Likely no racing or track riding at all. That got me to more thinking - I have friends that although were likely under 200 lbs were racing 250's and smaller in the 80s. I also had a friend that had a KTM 440 2-stroke (mid-90s) that literally scared ALL of us and he got injured seriously multiple times on it because it was so powerful, even though he was a very good rider.

That all being said, do you really think with a much newer machine (like a newer 250 or 230) I'd really be that disappointed? We live in central WI, which is relatively flat in nature compared to alot of the US. We would likely be riding on fire and logging lanes in the north part of the state or through wooded areas on private land. I can get on my 125 right now and it pulls me around just fine, so I question the need for a 450 for what I'm looking for. I know its not apple to apple comparison, but I'm guessing a 1975 2-stroke 125 wouldn't hold a flame to a newer 125 4 cycle, right? Now, if doing the riding I described with a 230 will leave me upset, constant snubs and stalls and in general just abuse because I'm too heavy, then its not much of a discussion. But if I'm able to do the more casual riding I described, maybe it'd be sufficient and a little easier on my pocket. I watched some videos of the 450s and my goodness, they can really rip! I'm 34 now and by the time the youngsters want to really rip it, I'll be too old to

Also, as some point I should go test ride some and see if that changes my opinion.

[Leardriver]

A 250 can be fine for trail riding. You work them a little harder, and the top ends wear slightly faster, but not enough for a casual rider to worry about.
Jim and me ride at higher altitudes, where the power is taken down a notch. I have never ridden a bike with too much power, and I raced MX on a KX500. I control power with my wrist, and it's nice to have it. I think there are more 450's for sale to choose from.

[apbling]

ok makes sense. Well, I have a ton of street experience and a ton of "trail" experience, but thats when I was a youngsters, and all my rides were already beaten to death, old and slow by the time my folks got them for me. haha.

I grew up in the country so most of my riding was farm land and some wooded trails. But I was in Green Bay, which is FLAT.

That KTM was an absoulte death machine though. We were about 17 and I was already 6' and 220 lbs. Even in a farm field, 4th gear, you just rolled on the throttle and the front end was coming up. His uncle used to try and race it, but gave up after too many injuries (could be skill related) and sold it to my buddy. My buddy broke his collar bone like 3 times on that bike. I know it had a pipe, but other than that I'm not sure. But you didn't let the pretty purple seat and graphics fool ya. haha.

[Leardriver]

I remember the old Honda CR 480's. Those bikes were for men

Newer four strokes are a dream to ride. Better suspensions, and on a 450, you leave it in 3rd gear all day. No clutch or shifting required.