[Harkon]

2013 450X, needing a pointer please. Desmog went fine and now I am trying to remove the pilot screw and install the R&D fuel screw, and the JD Jetting kit. Taking it one step at a time though. To install the fuel, I'm having no small difficulty in removing the factory unit. I can't seem to get the carb rotated to the right far enough to be able to even properly see the fuel screw. I can see the hole and if it get under the bike and look up the hole, there's some brass way up inside, and a black so0mething or other in front of that, but I see not good way to get anything out of there. At first glance it doesn't even look as though anything removable is even in there. Am I stuck having to disassemble everything to get the airbox out and remove the carb? Even then, how in the world does one get whatever is in there out?

I heard about the red butt connector method, but I can't see it getting around anything in there to get a 'bite'. Is my '13 model different somehow, or am I just being too cautious? Even with the carb rotated as far as I can, which isn't much, it is very difficult to even get a butt connector in there, never mind trying to do it while it's hot. I've been at this for a while now and am just a bit frustrated, so I had to leave it for a bit.

[Harkon]

After much reading and research I think it's possible I'm missing something here. On the how to for jetting the picture shows the screw clearly past the hole entrance. I can't see anything resembling a screw for the hole and further to that there is no hole up the centre of the opening. The hole has a smaller hole in it but it seems offset forward. This is really weird. Can anyone shed some light on this for me. What should this look like?

[Back2-2]

You may have a factory plug that is installed in the pilot jet hole to keep from altering the factory setting. This is very common in many motorcycles due to EPA restrictions. If that is what you have them you have to use something to get a hold of the aluminum plug & pull it out. You can use an easy-out or a left hand drill bit to get a bite on it and pull it out. Be sure that is what you have before going much further.

[Harkon]

Thanks for the reply.

Could be. I did the same with my KLR650 last year and it had a plug covering the whole screw hole. I had to drill it out carefully and pull out the remainder of the plug. Looks like in this case it has a bar across the access.




Sorry about the quality of the pics, tough angle

I'm really unsure as to if I should remove this or not, or how I would even do this. And if I did, what is behind it and will it just fall out or is it an actual adjustment screw? I get the the EPA doesn't want these things tampered with, but, this is rediculous!!

Anyone seen anything like this? Am I safe to remove it? Any ideas on how to accomplish this? Looking at what's left in the hole, it does not look like, to me anyway, that the R&D screw will fit in there. the hole looks too small for that, but that is just a visual estimate. A drill bit to remove is out of the question, looks like it would have to be extracted in some way. I have no idea how hard or strong this all is, might be a real bear to get out. If it's just a piece of soft lead or something, easy, if it's like a roll pin, may require carb removal and some better idea of how it was inserted.

As an update, had really nice temps here today so I took it for it's virgin run, just out the back for 10 minutes or so. Once it got up to running temperature it ran pretty well. Still a bit of decel pop, even with it desmogged, but much better that it was. My guess is that it will be even better once we see spring and summer. Without access to this screw though (if there actually is one), there's no way I'm even going to attempt to open the air box.

[Back2-2]

The pic is not clear enough for me to see what you have. That appears to be the pilot port but the plug or what ever that brass piece is looks like it is going at at a 90 degree angle ?
Never seen that ? Pull the carb & see whats up with it.

[Harkon]

The brass piece is verticle, I think, as would be expected. The dark round thing you see covering the center of it looks like a pin of some sort to me. As you can see, the hole for the screw is well off center towards the carb bowl.

It's unfortunate I could not get a shot that looked directly down the hole. A slight angle was necessary in order to be able to light it and still get my phone in there.

[Harkon]

Looks to me like this (pin) is item 50 in the below diagram.



Can anyone verify? I will take a closer look when I get home tonight.

[Harkon]

The item 50 is definitely there on my bike. This isn't even shown in the service manual. I tried to remove it but could not get a good grip on it. I think I'll have to pull the carb to better get at it. I'm not sure if it's threaded and turns out or if it's just pressed in and can be removed with a solid pull.

Has anyone seen anything like this? Any insight would be most helpful. Hoping to get to this by the weekend.

[Kyle450x]

Weird! I've never seen that before. What year X do you have?

Anyone know why Honda did this? No fuel screw adjustment??

[Back2-2]

That is interesting. It must be some form of tamper proof locking pin ? When you have the carb off you should be able to get a better idea of what you got.
I would be concerned that the "pin" would be an air leak if removed - some engineering will be required to correct that. But, it's always doable !

[Harkon]

Thanks guys. I finally got it. Pulled the carb and got it onto a table. The pin had a head on it that looked like a socket head, but instead of a hex socket it is just round. The pin just blocks access to the screw so it's presence is strictly for tamper proofing.

The pin head was like half way in an easement in the carb casting so ther was no way to actually grab the head of the pin. As the centre of the pin head was hollowed out I could use a needle nose vise grip and grip the head between the hollow and the outside edge. A wiggle and some not too agressive pulling and it popped out like a rotten tooth. The fuel screw was still well inside the hole so I pulled the bowl off an foun it was still not where I could get a hold of it. It had a 'D' shaped head so I used the red crimp connector trick and finally got it out. Needed 2 connectors, messed the first one up after a couple of turns.

The R&D screw went right in the hole after I got the spring, washer and o-ring out. I jetted the carb according to what the JD kit recommended and began to reinstall the carb. After swearing a lot at the hot start nut I finally got the carb in.

I understand the need for Honda to make these things tamper resistant, but holy crap, I think if someone had an angled needle nose vies grip this could probably have been removed with the carb on the bike, but getting the factory screw out with it so far up inside the carb, would have taken some doing.
If anyone is interested I can take some pics of the part I removed. I was going to take some pics as I was doing it but my phone died

It's just the luck I've been having.

For Kyle, it's a 2013. Manufactured 08/12. Got it new in the box a month ago or so. It was a left over from last year's stock.

The dealer and the dealer techs had no idea what I was talking about. They had a used 250x, I think a 2012, and it had the same POS pin thing in it. Maybe it's a Canadian version thing or something. Odd that the techs are clueless, but that's been my experience with that particular dealer. We only have one dealer in town so I guess I'm stuck with them. I would never buy a street bike from them, and had my VTX1800 serviced there once. The service department is incompetent at best so I'm not surprised they know nothing. Sorry, I feel better now.

[Harkon]

Sorry about the rant last night. I just have an issue with engineering that makes things deliberately difficult.

Here's what the pin looks like,




I had to grab it from the center to the outside edge. That's why it's so scarred. The adjustment screw was still about 3/16" up inside of the carb, even with the bowl removed.

[Back2-2]

The rant was well justified !~
Nice job - looks like you are on your way now. You shed light on something that most of us in the states had never seen.

Cool deal & good ending.

[Harkon]

Yes, I'm much happier with the purchase of the bike now. Finished final assembly today after work and took it for a spin. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears now have the front end wanting to lift. Very responsive and much, much more power. Smoother running, no popping, wait a minute, it runs just like it should from the factory.

Installed JD kit, 162 main, red needle on 4th position, and pilot screw at 1 and 1/4 turns. It's still cool out so I may end up having to move the needle to position 3. We'll see, but at least now, I have options.

Thanks everyone for your help and support.

[crazybrother]

This is the second time that I've heard of this and both have been on 2013 models... So there must be the answer. It's not on my 2012 model.