[Monkeywrench]

Ken, and all:
I'm learning that it seems pretty easy to "feel" what I did wrong on a jump, versus trying to figure out what I'm doing "right" the few odd times a jump goes well. (All I can say is it feels smooth as butter when it goes great, and when it doesn't go well... it's more like it felt like I just tried to jump in a Winnabego). (bid-ol' motorhome).

Note: It also could be tough learning on these particular jumps since they are both each right after separate 45-degree turns. But since they're all I can find right now (and just the right size to learn on), can someone help with some pointers on how to set yourself up to jump properly out of a turn?

Here's couple details in case this can help pinpoint what I'm doing wrong:
1) I'm in that "standing" position Ev described in the other jumping thread. (knees slightly bent, elbows too, leaning over steering bearings). I get into this position right after making the 45-degree turn before the jumps, at the same time hitting some throttle.
2) Sometimes the nose of the bike wants to drop right down over the top of the jump. (Bike isn't leaving the dirt). This is a frustrating feeling - I don't fancy going over the handlebars if I don't have to.
3) The times when I do nail the jump, I am catching waaaay too much air, and landing like I just jumped a car - "I" bounce all over the place. Am I supposed to keep my leg muscles taught during the landing so as to not let my backside slam down on the seat at all?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I want to get this right. Thanks in advance,
Matt

[ev]

OK, Matt, you already know I am not the jumping kind, rather oldfashioned enduro

just some thoughts ...
I learned the basics on an old XR600 = top-heavy, front-heavy, plush fork landing that thing on the frontend hurt,
so my rear-end still is way back, almost as far as my arms and legs will reach

do not close the throttle ere your hind wheel is in the air,
closing the throttle or using the reat brake will your bikes nose dropp,
use a picture: your rear wheel is spinning at high revolution,
if you try to slow it down the centrifugal force will pull what ever is attached in that case, your bike with it
same pic other way around, if you accellerate mid-air your bikes nose will rise

if you "bounce all over the place" check your suspension setup
of course you do not want to give up your contoll in landing,
the standing position gives you MUCH more control over the bike than sitting
plus you hitting the seat when landing will put a LOT of extra weight-impact on your suspension

do you have just a little hard packed heap of dirt, a single whoop or something alike?
approach it slow, gas it, just before your front goes over and 'lift' the front-end over it,
then a bit at a time go faster,
try to control your and the bikes movement,
until you clear your whoop,
landing the rear a tad before the front
from there you can 'go bigger' with a lot less fear

[crfsonly]

matt...i'm not sure how much of a 'run' you have out of the turn but it sounds like you have enough to get off the seat into a standing position. that's good but not necessary. there are lots of times when a jump is immediately out of a turn and you end up leaving the face of the jump in the saddle.

since you have a time to stand...stand and make sure when you're standing that your head is far enough forward such that if you looked down you could see the number on your front number plate. at first this will feel like you're too far foward...however, if you'll bend the knees slightly and pivot at the hips to get this position it will end up being a fairly neutral stance over the bike.

make sure you get all the speed you need to clear the jump as early as possible. accelerating up the face is an advanced technique. once you get the correct speed hold it up the face and DO NOT chop the throttle until your back tire has left the jump. doing otherwise will bring the front end down while bring you over the bars!

one word of caution. when you are rolling up the face of the jump you need to adjust your body postion to maintain that forward position mentioned earlier. there's a tendancy to let the face fo the jump 'push' your body back from that position. resist this effect and maintain this position.

if your body position was correct off the face and you maintained your speed you'll have enough control to either pull up the bars or push them down as need to change the attitude of your bike in the air. you shouldn't be bouncing around on the landing if there's a face to land on and you are landing close to parallel with the face.

you don't want to land front wheel high...but rather front/back wheel even to possibly front wheel slightly first. of course, it varies depending on the situation but as a general rule. to accomplish this you will often have to push the bars down while in the air.

when you get this down then we all can work on learning the 'bubba scrub'

lastly, if you can find a nice table top jump nad just practice that jump over and over again several times a week you'll get it down and be able to repeat it the next time out.

good luck and let us know how it goes.

p.s. braking in the air or 'panic rev' will help change the attitude of the bike in the air...but that's more advanced then i think you're ready for...concentrate on the fundamentals and then add the extras later.

[Monkeywrench]

Thanks Ken. Right away I can see I've been accelerating 'up the face of the jumps'.

There does seem to be a (short) runway before these 2 particular jumps, so I'll concentrate on giving it some throttle during the short runway, instead of waiting until the front tire hits the face of the jump.

I think the other problem I'm having is confidence that I'm "landing" less Kamakazie style. I mean, the bike's suspension is very forgiving and allowing of mistakes, but even with that factored in I still feel like I'm landing a riding mower. I wish I could "see" myself do it, but from what it feels like, I'm thinking I almost "sit" on the seat in mid-air. I dunno why I do this.

Ken, should I keep my leg muscles taught, so my backside stays at a fixed height during the landing? -- I don't mean 'lock the knees', but almost similar muscle tension as a downhill ski?

thanks for all this advice.
every bit helps keep the rookie on his seat instead of in the shrubs. (owch, eee, whoa)... yes, I 'panic rev' too. blast.
matt

[ev]

braking in the air or 'panic rev' will help change the attitude of the bike in the air...but that's more advanced then i think you're ready for...

yes, Ken,
but knowing why his bike wants to drop the nose might help Matt, even if he does not jet stabilize the bike mid air.

might it be that you (sometimes) close the throttle as soon as you think you are off the ground
or even if only your front end is, Matt?
DON'T!
Try to keep the throttle position the same thruout the run + jump.

... so my backside stays at a fixed height during the landing?
not a fixed height, try to feather some of the landing impact with your knees
but don't do squads,
stretch your knees a bit more in the air and bend them a bit more while landing
to absorb some of the bouncing
after you did it a couple of times it will feel natural,
just like you are flying a whee bit higher than your bike

please, please start small to prevent injuries

[crfsonly]

matt...if you are accelerating up the face of the jump AND you chop the throttle before your rear wheel leaves the jump face then you are providing the ingredients for a header! if you come out of a turn and there's little run up to the jump you may have to use the face to accelerate so you'll have enough speed to clear the jump. however, you have to make sure you don't roll off the throttle even the slightest bit.

stay loose while jumping and let the bike work but definitly do what is necessary to maintain correct body position. keep in mind when you hit the face of the jump, gravity will tend to pull you backwards from your position leading into the jump face. so, if you are standing in the right postion leading up to the face if you're not careful you can end up losing that position by the time you leave the face. it can also have the affect of changing your throttle position.

when done correctly you actually have more leverage in the air over the attitude of your bike than you might think is possible (meaning pulling the front up or pushing the front down).

ev gives great advice...start small and practice technique. if you can, it's better to practice 3 times a week for an hour each time than 1 time a week for 3 hours. it's a muscle memory thing.

good luck!

ken



it sounds to me like you might be going off of the jump and kind of pushing the bike forward (which moves you backward over the rear axle). not seeing what the jump looks like

[Monkeywrench]

Ahaa. This is beginning to make sense. Something I just realized:

Ken & Ev, you mentioned how important it is to 'stay on' the throttle until completely up the jump face -- I had been thinking it's bad (for some reason... maybe new rider syndrome) to let the bike rev free when in the air.

Now I know I'm probably chopping the throttle, and probably right after the front wheel clears. What I didn't realize was that chopping the throttle (like say on a trail or when going through a sharp turn) provides great "engine braking".

It does the same thing going up a jump face. (Maybe even better since it's a hill).

I will wait to drop the throttle until the engine free rev's for a moment -- this way I know both wheels are off the jump. It seems too tricky just yet to judge when that is, and when I mis-judge it, the nose wants to drop right down as a result.

Last question: do you clutch when landing?
thankyou guys.
Matt

[crfsonly]

lights are going off are they? that's great. the only time i cluch while jumping is if i'm using the back brake to lower the front...other wise it's on the throttle when i land. you'll eventually get the feel for how much and when to hit the throttle again. the idea is to accelerate after landing, if the obstacles after the jump allow it that is. when you're in the air you're losing speed so the quicker you land and can get back on the throttle the faster your lap times.

[crfsonly]

here's a great article on this very topic...featuring michael byrne...check it out:

http://www.transworldmotocross.com/mx/h ... 52,00.html

ken