[Monkeywrench]

Guys I am having a tough time making a choice, here... I was hoping you could help yet again. I appreciate your guys' advice --

Have an '04 250X (original owner) that over time, I have turned into as close to the 250R as I could (was only really into woods riding when I got it). Only the suspension is left to have done. But the weight and wide-ratio transmission will always be what it is -- the X.

I have been seriously considering selling the X outright, and switching to the 250R, to move to a model more purposed to ride on the track (different tranny gearing, lighter weight, proper suspension)... until I had a chance to ride with someone who had only been riding a year on a 230, and went right to a 450, and said he'd do it again in a heartbeat. It seemed like a huge jump in power, and he did say he was nervous at first... but commented that there is power there for just about any condition you can throw at it, and the handeling spanks the 230. (Could have guessed that one, since it looks like track-riding the 230 would be like trying to motocross a Sherman tank).

Not yet having a chance to ride a 450R, I was wondering if anyone here had made a similar switch (250X or R, to a 450R). Have been track riding a little over a year now, weigh about 180 (without gear), about 5'10"... very curious if the extra power of a 450 would make it difficult to continue to learn the sport, or if a 250R is the way to go. I have lost count of the # of teens riding the 450R at the track (some with high skill, and some looking beginner) and was wondering if after a year of switching to and riding a 250R if I'd wish I had gotten the 450 instead.

Lots of questions -- I appreciate your guys' background and personal experience on this one. I will keep looking for an opportunity to try one at the track. Most I have seen are earlier models, though, which I know have had a heavier "feel" to them, as Honda has kept tweaking the 450R each new year.

Thanks for any advice,
-matt

[124]

If your interested in being as fast as you can be at the MX track, then get the 250R. If your looking to make the bike into an "all-around" toy for woods/track/etc, and not to worried about being as good as you can be, then go 450.

The 450 will inspire confidence because it has a lot of "get you out of trouble" power. But that's a double edge sword. It promotes a lazier riding style over time. Trust me, I'm the fastest "slow" guy in the crew here...err. or is slowest "fast" guy? Uuhm...not sure?

Sorry..anyway, the 250R will force you to ride like your supposed to. Corner speed, carrying momentum, and did I say corner speed? Yeah..corner speed. Jumps are easy, any idiot with enough nads can do them. Motocross is about endurance on rough tracks and corner speed. Jumps come easy when your carrying speed through the exit of a corner.

My advise is buy a 250R. Buy a pipe right off the bat and get the jetting dialed. If you have the cheese, do the suspension. Go find a fast guy to ride with.

My $0.02.

[Monkeywrench]

Well said. I understand exactly what you're getting at. I think I have seen it as well -- at least a few times now I have seen 450R riders who do that. By the nature of the exhaust and the 450 sound you can't help but watch them ride a while... only to see that sometimes they whomp on the gas waaay more coming out of turns than keeping speed through them. Resulting in lots of "wo! look at the roost that thing throws!" gasps from the youth and on-lookers.

You have made a good point here I hadn't considered. So the double edged sword you refer to isn't actually the power being bad because it can injure you (although I'm sure it can if abused), but cause you to not work as hard at technique because there is power there to make up for it.

Yup, a very good point indeed.

That having been said, do you feel the ability is still there to develop proper skill on a 450? Meaning, if you still desire to learn to perfect things like cornering, will the bike's power and (weight? mass?) make that more difficult to continue to learn the proper ways?

[MadMatt]

I went from a Z50 to a 450R lol. Ive driven just about everything out there. If its got wheeles I more then likly drove it. I don't have any MX skills at all (its sad really), but your riding style is going to determen what bike your going to be happy driving.
I was looking to buy a 250R befor I got the 450R, but I sat on the 450 and took it for a rip around the lot, got power happy and just had to have it lol I would buy one again in a heartbeat, it still amazes every time I get on it

[124]

You have made a good point here I hadn't considered. So the double edged sword you refer to isn't actually the power being bad because it can injure you (although I'm sure it can if abused), but cause you to not work as hard at technique because there is power there to make up for it.

Hmmm... very good point indeed.

That having been said, do you feel the ability is still there to develop proper skill on a 450? Meaning, if you still desire to learn to perfect things like cornering, will the bike's power and (weight? mass?) make that more difficult to continue to learn the proper ways?

I'm not worried about you learning to use the power Matt. Your obviously smart enough and seem level-headed. (Although having never met, you could be a complete lunatic! J/K)

It's not the danger. It's about the natural progression of things. It's better to take the steps in order when learning. Especially MX. You can see it yourself. Next time go to the track and watch the fast guys. You could almost take a picture of them at any point and it looks like a certain way (and you know what way that is). The bike, direction they follow, and line choices are deliberate. Very natural looking, it doesn't look like they are struggling to cross a rut...or rail a tricky berm. They flow with the bike, not just hanging on.

And there is a lot of hanging on with the 450.

The 250R with a pipe and properly jetted is a blast to ride. One of my very best friends has just that. He dropped to a 47 rear sprocket, piped, jetted and the thing is a rocket. But the power is manageable to learn on. He's making big strides in his learning curve since getting it and because he feels the improvement, he's paying more attention to what faster guys are doing. This is because he feels the confidence to go out and do what we tell him to. We ride a lot of trails and besides the WFO snowmobile trail stuff, he never complains of needing more. {EDIT: I should note that he was on a RM250 previously, and it is obvious that the power inhibited his ability to learn.}

Now if your not worried about technique, flow, or being as fast as you can be on an MX track, then go get that 450. Play riding and woods riding will be much more fun with it. It is possible to learn the MX jedi ways with the 450, but the power is inhibitive to a degree.

[Monkeywrench]

Very good points once again - am in 100% agreement. Would much rather learn and keep learning rather than trade learning for sheer power. So I think with some excellent advice you have helped put things in perspective - I'll stay with the 250R as my pick.

The 250R with a pipe and properly jetted is a blast to ride.

I'm curious ---
When you say to change the stock pipe on the 250R, do you mean the header, or the (dual) exhaust itself?
What has your 250R friend done to his?


The jetting I'm almost betting will be off, right from the start. Then there is somewhat of a bog issue to be delt with on the '07 I understand (c/o Honda R&D team and the new bigger carb) Funny to read Factory teams are ditching the '07 carb for the '05. That's something I wouldn't have thought I'd see (on a Honda anyway)... First thought was that it sounded kind of Sanford & Son's to me (can almost hear the theme song playing in the background, as I imagine Team Honda scrap-raiding an old '05 250R to rob it of its prized carbureator) , but hey -- what works works I guess!

124 -- Thanks for the advice -- was just the thing I needed.
Respect,
-matt

[124]

My buddy has an 05' and put a FMF 4.1 system and a 47 rear sprocket.

Regardless of year, the thing is good from the start once the "landing bog" is worked out, but it will lack top end for the off-road/play riding stuff. That's where the pipe comes in. Do the pipe off the start, work out the jetting and you won't have to worry about enough power ever again. Then suspension is your only "big $ purchase" and you're completely done, ready to rock.

Now you need find a fast guy and hopefully he won't charge you any $ to hang with him!! Lol.

[Sammy Davis Jr.]

...so your friend got a FMF 4.1 pipe for his '05 CRF450R...I was looking at the FMF 4.1 Carbon to put on MY '05 450...mainly because the stock silencer is too heavy. I've replaced stock pipes with much lighter aftermarket pipes in the past and felt a real improvement in handling. So, can you give me a description of how the FMF 4.1 affected the bike's power? Better low-end, better top-end, overall improvement, or not a heck of alot different? He needed to change jetting? Richer main, I would imagine. Thanks.

[nedirtbikr]

I did the same thing as the guy you rode with who went from the 230 to a 450. I can only say I would do it all over again without a second thought.

I am NOT an experienced racer. I usually ride woods and natural terrain tracks for fun. I also compete in Harescrambles and Enduros and I participate in the C/Trailriders class. I have my first MX race in two weeks and am really looking forward to it. I am not expecting to be any real competition however, I will be riding to win.

I have LOVED the 450R. When I first got on it I nearly $hit my pants! I was so used to the mellow throttle response of the 230, I nearly had my first biff before even getting 25 feet on the bike. After that, I just took it nice and easy and now I am even with or beating the guys I ride with that used to have to wait on me (230 or 450.)

I don't know 124 personally, but from the experience that is obvious in his posts on this site, I have come to trust a lot of what he says. The 250R may be the way to go for you. I just wanted to chime in a give you the lowdown on a guy's experience (just started riding in 2004 and I'm 41) going from the 230 to the 450.

Best of luck on your decision!

[124]

...so your friend got a FMF 4.1 pipe for his '05 CRF450R...

He put a FMF 4.1 system on an 05' 250R. It was a very large improvement and greatly affected the saitisfaction of his purchase. Before that, it was lacking a great bit in the woods/trails and he started to think about a 450.

I don't know 124 personally, but from the experience that is obvious in his posts on this site, I have come to trust a lot of what he says. The 250R may be the way to go for you. I just wanted to chime in a give you the lowdown on a guy's experience (just started riding in 2004 and I'm 41) going from the 230 to the 450.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. At the young age of 30, I've brought many people into the sport. Some didn't have the drive, some are still doing it at a recreational level, and some have taken the sport as a lifestyle change. Personally, I breath, eat, sleep, and live dirt bikes and it's been that way since I was 5. I can only count on one hand how many vacations/trips I've taken that didn't include riding (ok maybe a snowmobile ride, but kinda the same).

My point was to not talk Matt out of a 450, but merely advise that it depends on what he wants out of the sport in the long run. If you want to rip it up on an MX track, play in the woods, and occasionally race a scramble or two, then the 450 may be the ticket.

I ride with some very fast dudes (relatively speaking ofcourse). They teach and instruct us everytime we ride. In order to master or become an expert level rider, the appropriate steps must be taken. It seems like Matt wants everything he can on an MX track. The way he talks (err...well types that is), he wants to learn. To be a student of the sport (MX), you must take small steps. Can't grab 4th and go for Larocco's Leap yet!! Plus, with a pipe, a 250 can be a great offoad bike too...

Then again, I could be totally full of crap and just not afraid to admit it! lol...

[Monkeywrench]

Then again, I could be totally full of crap and just not afraid to admit it! lol...

no. It's very good advice.
Plus what would I have to look forward to???

I just wanted to chime in a give you the lowdown on a guy's experience (just started riding in 2004 and I'm 41) going from the 230 to the 450.

I too started riding in '04. And I give you props for jumping from 230 to 450 -- I hope I'm in good enough shape in 10 years time to do that too!
I think the 450R will end up being my Elenor (ever see Gone In 60 Seconds?) I hope maybe one day I could master the power and handling of a 450 like Nicolas Cage drove Elenor, only just not bang it up quite as much as he did getting it where he needed to go.

Geez, by then I wonder if dirt bikes will all be electric!
THEN I will have regretted my decision. MUCH.
Who would want to "electric roost" on anything?

Thanks again guys, you have helped tons yet again.
Now for the 2nd question: grab an '07, or wait a month or 2 and see what the '08 looks like.
-Matt

[nedirtbikr]

Now for the 2nd question: grab an '07, or wait a month or 2 and see what the '08 looks like. -Matt

As far as I'm concerned, if you have the cash...go brand new. That's what I'd do! The only "gotcha" is changes that might turn out to be not so good (doubtful.) With the valve issues fixed and a couple of other things that affected the early models, I don't see how you could go wrong gettin' a newborn.

[Monkeywrench]

Now for the 2nd question: grab an '07, or wait a month or 2 and see what the '08 looks like. -Matt

As far as I'm concerned, if you have the cash...go brand new. That's what I'd do! The only "gotcha" is changes that might turn out to be not so good (doubtful.) With the valve issues fixed and a couple of other things that affected the early models, I don't see how you could go wrong gettin' a newborn.

Well, there does seem to be some bogging issue with the '07 250R. But I think I'm ready to take on that challenge.

The only thing I'm not sure I understand is 124 described a bog after landing a jump. I guess I'll have to wait and see what that's all about, but I can't picture what the cause of that could be. Just hoping it wasn't a carb engineering goof they (plan to/have already) fixed for '08 production. I wonder just how many '07's are out there being ridden hard at local tracks. I don't see that many where I ride. Most of the 250R's are '05 or earlier (single pipe gives that away).