[nox11]

Checked the spark was spot on, didn't check it immediately after it stopped, but have not been able to get it started again - so can't check it hot unfortunately! Checked it after - and still sparks really well!

[JimDirt]

What is your fuel screw at , it should be about 1 1/8 - 1 3/4 turns out from just seated

If it has to be out 3+ turns you have a clog somewhere , either in the carb itself or the pilot jet , if so replace the pilot jet instead of trying to clean it

When you move the screw in or out what does the bike do , does it pop more ?? , does the idle go up or down from where it was ??

For kicks and giggles , trace the wires coming off your kill switch , about where the frame spar starts , is where the connection should be , its 2 plugs , ....unplug it and try to start the bike , ....if it starts ...., just put it in gear , holding the brakes and slowly let the clutch out **with the wheels on the ground of course** , then try it again , if it starts immediately ride it around and see if it dies or runs weird , if not then your kill switch is bad , they do go out from time to time , i have had one go bad on both my bikes (450X and 450R)

[nox11]

Thanks JimDirt,

I'll have another look on Monday - and will deffo check the kill switch. Heading out for the weekend.

Have a good one!

[nox11]

Quick update - tried the killswitch thing, seems its already not the original on there - the wiring has been re done by someone previously. I've disconnected - no starting. Then connected the two wires directly to one another (don't know what this does - but worth a try) - no starting.

So unfortunately that rules out that. I was really hoping for the switch gone bad.

The bike has not started since it died 2 updates ago.

I have not touched the carb again - just waiting for my new jet to come, then I'll start the carb process again - and work it through back to front.

I bought a multimeter - but realised I'm an idiot when it comes to electricity - I have no idea how to or for what to check... I thought about trying to see if the stator and rectifyer works fine. But ended up not doing anything - other than checking voltage on the battery.

Unfortunately because it does not start - I cant tell you about the fuel screw's effect on idling and riding...

It does not even sound enthusiastic

[crazybrother]

The kill switch is an (open-circut)normal and (closed) to engage the kill, so the two wires should be apart (not-touching) for the bike to run. If you push in on the kill switch it closes the circuit and ground's out the ignition and the bike will not run.

[nox11]

Thanks Crazybrother - I kind of figured something like that.

My #162 jet pitched up last night - so tonight I'll go back into the carb to see if something can be done there.

And just finished a freelance job that pays for a part of the crap I've been having with the X.

So that's pretty optimistic - same as I'm going to be taking off the carb again.

[124]

I'm an old "R" guy, so excuse me if I speak out of line with some particulars.

First off, sorry about your luck with the farm bike. I've had the pleasure of working on a number of them and most of them I was wishing the owner's didn't work on them at all.

You'll be chasing all kinds of different symptoms if the bike isn't mechanically sound. Meaning that the parts that are supposed to be there are, and that they are functioning properly. Seems obvious, but chasing ghosts are common when you start to get frustrated.

I sorta skimmed through the last 3 pages, so if this has been suggested, I apologize. With that said, you'll be chasing jetting issues till your ready to light the bike on fire if the hot start isn't working properly. The hot start cable, plunger, and carb orifice need to be spotless, and operating properly.

You're compression numbers are a bit off. Manual for my R says 64psi. It shouldn't vary much. Do the test consistently, do not introduce variables in test procedure. Be sure to open the throttle fully while kicking. 50 is low...

Your valvetrain sound like it's bad. In general, farm bikes don't get properly maintained, especially the air filter. Dirt is the mother of all valvetrain evil on these bikes. I'm betting when you got it the air filter resembled a perfectly cooked fire-roasted marshmellow?

Timing needs to be spot on. If you're doubting it, it might be off. Try using the ignition side peephole. It has less parallax. Line up to the second hash mark on the flywheel. Grab a non-frustrated friend to double check you.

TIP: Take a systematic approach. Don't work on different areas all at once. Approach each system separately. Ensure all the correct parts are there, that they are correct, and functioning the way they should. Many times, we loose this once we start getting frustrated.

Do you have a Honda service manual? if not, you need one. My experience is that they are the best in the biz...link:

http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.as ... itemtype=N

[nox11]

Hey 124 - yup, seems to be the case here - chasing my tail.

I have a manual - and following it quite closely at the moment.

Compression varies: 52 - 62Psi

Valve clearances are spot on.

No clogs in carb - opened last night to look again and installed a #162 main jet.

Fuel screw 2 turns out.

Hot start is clean and smooth, the plastic nut seems a little bit stripped, but holds in place.

Air filter has been thorougly cleaned - was not looking too bad, and re oiled - the LBS suggested using my the same oil I'm running in the tranny - so thats what it's lubed with.

The timing seemed good from the R-side.
Is it necessary for me to pull out the vernier for the timing chain wheel's two horiszontal marks? They look parrallel with the case.

Frustration seem to be the name of the game - no idea why it started and idled beautifully, backfired rough and then never started again...

[JimDirt]

Cant remember if you posted this or not , but what is your exact elevation ??

What would normally be a 0-1000 jetting , might not work in some instances

I have a friend with a 2011 KTM 450SXF , its basically the same carb , and to get his to run (as well as when i went to visit him a year ago , i had the same issue with both my bikes) , he as well as i had to go with a 182 main and a 48 pilot with 3 turns on the fuel screw at 500 ft elevation , even though its far from what should be correct , it was the only way our bikes would run , and it is how his is still jetted (his bike is E-Start only so it has to start right up or it wears down the battery , even with a Shorai , so jetting is critical with his bike)


One last question , what was/is the elevation/difference from where you bought the bike to where you live/are riding it ??

[nox11]

ok, i've decided to get a little more clued up on multimeter usage and to inspect the electrical system to see if something is weird.
Following the manual I did the continuity check on the alternator connection. And testing black (ground) to white and black to yellow as the manual instructs - i have no continuity on either of these...
Could the issues i've been having be due to a messed up alternator stator or not?

black to blue i have continuity.

My elevation is similar to where I bought the bike.

The fact that the bike started perfectly and then never again makes me think it has to be something electrical...

[crazybrother]

Could be the CDI, do you have someone close by with the same bike? That way you could swap parts (one at a time) and see where the problem might be.

[JimDirt]

ok, i've decided to get a little more clued up on multimeter usage and to inspect the electrical system to see if something is weird.
Following the manual I did the continuity check on the alternator connection. And testing black (ground) to white and black to yellow as the manual instructs - i have no continuity on either of these...
Could the issues i've been having be due to a messed up alternator stator or not?

black to blue i have continuity.

My elevation is similar to where I bought the bike.

The fact that the bike started perfectly and then never again makes me think it has to be something electrical...

According to what i just read , this is for charging coils of the stator only , so it should have no effect on running , just charging , as long as the ignition part of the coils are working the bike should run , not saying the issue is not electrical , but i would be looking more at the ICM (Ignition Control Module) than the stator , usually when the ignition part of the stator goes it is usually when you are riding and the bike will just die , not usually a intermittent starting issue

Have you pulled the plug (and/or tried a brand new plug) and hooked it up outside the motor and grounded it to the engine and looked for spark ?? (it shows how to do this in the Service Manual)

If you get spark , and you are getting fuel to the plug , and you have compression , the bike SHOULD run , Fuel , Air , Compression , Spark , thats all there is basically to make a motor run

If your not getting spark , there is the Coil , the ICM and the Stator , thats about it as long as you have a good ground at the motor and all timing , fuel and compression has been positively eliminated

[nox11]

I've checked the spark plug - outside the engine spark test a couple of times - sparks been good all along, but I'm replacing it this afternoon just to be safe - might as well. If it is not the problem, at least I have a spare one.

I flippen am so frustrated by now - the components that's supposed to give life here - individually are spot on;

1. carb cleaned and jetted to my altitude
2. filter cleaned and oiled to my LBS' recommendation,
3. sparking like a thunder storm
4. compression test passed
5. valve clearances spot-on.
6. New battery-charged.
7. Kill switch good.
8. New throttle cables.
9. Fresh fuel in the system

I'm gonna guess - and this is just a hunch so don't quote me on this, that it is human error... somewhere something has been replaced or farm-fixed and it is screwing everything else in the process.

[nox11]

BTW I really appreciate all your input! I would have been loads more upset long ago if it was just me and the manual!

[nox11]

ok, so new sparkplug - no starting. Spark looks good - similar to the old plug.