[MXHJosh]

I go to several other message boards to get my moto fix and I've seen a trend where people talk about valve issues with the Honda. Where did all this unreliable Honda valve stuff come from? They all say basically the same thing that the valves fail and the motor goes, "BOOM". I don't get it, I've had a 2004 CRF450R since it was new, bought it in Dec. 2003 and have had zero issues with the valvetrain. As far as maintenance goes, I change the oil & filter regularly (maybe too much) and check valve clearances after about every 20 hours. So far I've only had to actually adjust the valves twice (once was when I replaced the piston & rings). I ride about 6-8 hours a week at a track near my house, so the bike has some seat time on it and still runs great.

What gives with these rumors, and where did they start? anyone know?

[Dust Devil]

Poor Maintenance and Sheeple.

[Asmith]

There were some issues in the 2002 CRF 450R and the 2004 CRF 250X. Those were corrected.

I think DD's comment about "Sheeple" has alot to do with it.

Also on the other message boards, you get the jealous Yamaha riders who couldn't get financed by Honda and had to settle for the Yamaha. They denegrate the Honda so they feel better about their own decision to purchase.

[124]

Not all internet dribble...

I've noticed Honda's have more valvetrain "trouble" than most manufacturers. But, in the same breath, 75% of the bikes I'm exposed to are Honda. So it could be a game of numbers...

First, I'll say that my exposure with 250X's and 450X's is very limited. I know no one (besides you goons) with X's.

The 250R's eat valvetrains within 2-3yrs of use. I don't know anyone who has broken this trend. And this is in MI, where we only ride 6-8mo's out of the year. 450R's seem to be on the 3-4yr schedule with most that I talk to and perform work on.

Some of the discussion is based on poor maintenance by the owner. In most cases, maintenance had nothing to do with it and more to do with how hard it is ridden. Even less, some have nothing to do with maintenance or riding style. The valvetrains just wore out. Not sure why, just did. I maintain my bike on schedule leaning on the overkill side of things. I had to do my headwork and stainless stuff within 1-1/2 seasons.

The other brands are not without there needs either. But, and I'm curious about this. Is it a national trend that 75% of the thumpers at the tracks are Honda. Sheer volume of ownership and willingness to discuss on the internet could be the cause of the talk.

Bottomline: Who cares what the internet forums say about Honda's. I know why I bought one. Do you?

[Crazy_Steve]

I know.


Cause it's red. =)

[[email protected]]

They denegrate the Honda so they feel better about their own decision to purchase.

That is a very accurate and perceptive statement.

Sheeple

And that is a very accurate and perceptive descriptor !
Part of the price of admission to ALL these new thumpers that spin well over 10,000 rpm is that they all will need new valves and head work after awhile. Duh !
It's not like Honda is the only brand that'll eventually need it , instead it's starting to look like Honda's need it maybe a little less than some of their competitors.
The Yamahas probably will go a little longer, but then the cost to rebuild a Yamaha leads like statements like this from Dirt Rider regarding Yamaha rebuilds: "The owner then must decide whether to put more money into the rebuild than the bike is worth". Hmmmm.
Honda rebuilds are very reasonable,top end,bottom end or both.
I always refer doubters to that Dirt Rider 200 hour tear down for a 450X that had the crap ridden and raced out of it. ONE exhaust valve needed adjusted,ONE in 200hrs. The piston,bottom end,transmission,the valves, all A-1.
There is also a whole lot of valve checking and shimming going on to bikes that don't need it, because the timing marks aren't set correctly, the feeler gauge isn't going in at exactly 90 degrees or the tension on it is wrong, then the owner starts ordering and replacing shims for no reason at all.
This is an elephant in the room nobody want's to talk about. How can Dirt Bike run a 24 hour on a stock bike right out of the crate and at the end the valves are perfect ? How can Dirt Rider get all those hard hours out of their's, all these owners here with that many hours or more and have no problem, then somebody has 5-10 hours (or less !) on their bikes and they think they have screwed up clearances ?! And their bike is running fine ? I believe a whole lot more owners are screwing up their valve checks than I believe Honda gets sloppy with setting the clearances during assembly.
If your UniCam Honda starts easily and runs great, leave the valves alone. They need clean,properly seated air filters,clean oil and a bath,and will reward you with many ,many long hours of excellent ,dependable service. Doug

[rkadair]

What is wrong with Honda valves is it the Valves or the seats that give up.

[[email protected]]

What is wrong with Honda valves is it the Valves or the seats that give up

.
There's nothing wrong with the valves.Read the above post.
When you change valves on any top end,any brand, you need new seats or re-cut seats. Doug

[KRCRFs]

My early 04 250X has had no valve issues at all. In fact, I've only had to shim the exhaust valves once and even then, they were only slightly out of spec.

I just checked them again during the holidays and they haven't moved at all in a year now and I put over 800 miles on them during that period.

Personally, I think if you follow a rigid maintenance schedule and stay off of the rev limiter, these bikes perform really well.

That said, I still don't feel that Honda has replaced the old XR line as far as reliability is concerned. However, as long as we as consumers are willing to purchase products with no warranty and questionable reliability, what motivation do they have to change?

[[email protected]]

That said, I still don't feel that Honda has replaced the old XR line as far as reliability is concerned. However, as long as we as consumers are willing to purchase products with no warranty and questionable reliability, what motivation do they have to change?

Maybe there's a market for a replacement for the XR400, but I sure don't want one of them. I think the CRF150/230 are super dependable machines.
I don't think there is any 'questionable reliability' at all.
For the overwhelming majority we've all been very pleased with the dependability of our bikes.
Doug

[nedirtbikr]

Welll, not a lot to say, but I can say....checked my valves just yesterday...they were all exactl where they were suppposed to be. I am not Joe racer and I don't bounce the limiter. The bike sees mostly woods and has been on the track once (for play.) Great machine...I love it to death.

[[email protected]]

On one hand, in the case of the X, a very limited powertrain only warranty, maybe 90 days should be standard.
And I do think that the guys who had a transmision failure should have been taken care of-there is no reason for Honda not to have made VERY clear to them how sensitive the transmission oil checking and changing procedure was, upon delivery of the vehicle.
I haven't heard of anyone running a full quart in the transmission having a problem though, and have heard of nobody with a 250X having a similar problem.
On the other hand,maybe I can understand why they don't offer an XR type warranty. These are Hondas, so a lot of people would buy them,beat on them, never check oil or clean air filters and generally treat them like a lawn mower.
Regardless, the vast majority of us would have never submitted even one claim, even if the warranty was for a year.
And it does get irritating constantly answering questions about the Honda valve 'issues'. There are no damn valve 'issues'. There is always going to be valve replacement and seat re-surfacing required on ANY modern four stroke after a good long while.
Instead, lets talk about the KTM 525 needing valve replacement at 200 hours while the 450X didn't, and it costing 1200 bucks to do to a Yamaha what it costs 400 to do on a Honda Doug

[instigator]

You tell 'em Doug!!!

If valves are such a big issue, why are 2 smokes on the way out in favor of machines with such huge potential problems with valves?

[[email protected]]

Yeah, it gets to be such a drag addressing the valve "issues".
It's really no different than saying two strokes have piston "issues", after awhile ,especially when it's a motor in a high state of tune certain things need to be done. Two strokes need top end jobs,all high performance thumpers will eventually need valve work.
Sure the four strokes more expensive to rebuild, but by now everone knows that going in.
It's not the case with an XR250/400, but I sure as heck don't want to go back to one of those things. Doug

[instigator]

Yeah, it gets to be such a drag addressing the valve "issues".
It's really no different than saying two strokes have piston "issues", after awhile ,especially when it's a motor in a high state of tune certain things need to be done. Two strokes need top end jobs,all high performance thumpers will eventually need valve work.
Sure the four strokes more expensive to rebuild, but by now everone knows that going in.
It's not the case with an XR250/400, but I sure as heck don't want to go back to one of those things. Doug

I got back into this sport after almost 20 years away from it. my last bike was a 1977 TT-500 double shock, weighed like a tank! I bought a 2003 XR400R and thought I was in heaven compared to the last bike I owned. I bought the 450x for the button and got so much more! and just bought my girlfriend an 06 250x for Christmas. She loves it already And if and when the valves need to be done on either of these bikes I will not grudgingly spend the money but rather realize it is the price of admission for an intense amount of fun and enjoyment!