[JimDirt]

Its not usually the scenario , usually its just like i posted , you pump it , and it sucks back in a little , then you pump it again , and it sucks in more , then again , in other words , if the seal is bad , it continues to suck in farther , the more you pump it , to the point you have to pull it out to fully extend it , but when you let go , it sucks back in , and all the while the oil is seeping out when you tip it and let it out the weep hole

Not saying the seal can't be bad , but if when you let it sit and its the same every time , and never gets worse and sucks in farther , then i would say the seal is ok


I take it you have not pulled the other one apart , why don't you disassemble the other fork , and when you pull the cartridge out , check to see if that one extends all the way before you take it apart , if it does , pull out the assembly , and drain the oil in it , then add the oil , and try to bleed it , and see if it does the same thing as your other one , or if it stays extended , this will confirm a bleed issue , or a seal issue

[mossman77]

Both forks consistently extend to the same length, so that is good. I may redo each fork one more time and NOT compress them fully this time. Maybe to within 1" or 2" so air doesn't get sucked back in. Except I suppose this will leave extra oil in there. I believe the manual says how much should remain, so I could just compress until the right amount is expelled. Although I want it to be right, I'm not racing or going off 30' jumps. I just putt around the woods and maybe leave the ground once in a while if I feel like hitting the track. Plus, the spring will push the rod to full extension won't it? Even though that last inch needs to be pulled to full extension, there is resistance when pushing for the full stroke.

Just saw your previous post. Yes, I already did the other fork and did not check it before disassembly because I didn't know any better. Neither of the rods suck back in, and never have. They just don't extend fully after being fully compressed. Even so, both forks consistently extend to the same length (12" when held vertically) and do not expel additional fluid after the first full compression. That being said, I think I'm going to call it good. There's nothing else I can do.

[JimDirt]

OK , if your not getting more oil after all the compressions , then the seal is good , and if they are both the same , then you should be ok , although i still dont get why they won't extend fully , but you have tried different ways , and it still does it , so , yea , go ahead and put them back on

BEFORE YOU PUT THEM ON THE BIKE !

Make sure when you assemble everything , to check the TOTAL amount of clicks for each rebound clicker , they both should be what it says in the manual , and both be the exact same , if they are not , then you must (with the forks upside down) loosen the rebound assembly hold it under the nut with the tool and adjust the nut accordingly , its fairly sensitive to adjustment , so 1/4 turn will be noticeable

The manual tells you what the measurement should be when setting the rebound nut

So when checking , if it clicks a TOTAL of 16-1/4 , and the other clicks 16 (this is till it totally stops , without forcing it , and the total movement , so if after getting to the last click it moves a 1/4 the way to the next click , then that is what both forks should have for a setting ...follow ??) , then you need to adjust the one that is only 16 so it matches the other fork , otherwise , the forks will be slightly different length , and what will happen is when you set your axle (you do set your axle before throwing the tire on right ??), you will have 1 fork higher or lower in the clamps than the other , so this is important to avoid fork bind , and something a lot of people fail to check

The axle should slide (when both fork tubes are exactly equal in the clamps) in easily , without lifting or forcing it thru both sides with no effort , if it hits the other side, and has to lift or drop slightly or you have to slightly compress or pull on the fork tube to get the axle thru , then 1 of the forks is a different length , if it does not align , and the forks are at the same height in the clamps , then remove the one that is shorter , and reset the nut on the rebound , making sure both are equal in clicks

You are still on the lighter springs correct ??

Keep a eye on what your "normal" travel is to see where its sitting , and take note of your clicker settings , , if your having to go almost all the way stiff and the forks are consistently lower in the stroke , then you will need the stiffer springs

Other than that , good job !!

[mossman77]

BEFORE YOU PUT THEM ON THE BIKE !

Make sure when you assemble everything , to check the TOTAL amount of clicks for each rebound clicker , they both should be what it says in the manual , and both be the exact same , if they are not , then you must (with the forks upside down) loosen the rebound assembly hold it under the nut with the tool and adjust the nut accordingly , its fairly sensitive to adjustment , so 1/4 turn will be noticeable

The manual tells you what the measurement should be when setting the rebound nut

So when checking , if it clicks a TOTAL of 16-1/4 , and the other clicks 16 (this is till it totally stops , without forcing it , and the total movement , so if after getting to the last click it moves a 1/4 the way to the next click , then that is what both forks should have for a setting ...follow ??) , then you need to adjust the one that is only 16 so it matches the other fork , otherwise , the forks will be slightly different length , and what will happen is when you set your axle (you do set your axle before throwing the tire on right ??), you will have 1 fork higher or lower in the clamps than the other , so this is important to avoid fork bind , and something a lot of people fail to check

The axle should slide (when both fork tubes are exactly equal in the clamps) in easily , without lifting or forcing it thru both sides with no effort , if it hits the other side, and has to lift or drop slightly or you have to slightly compress or pull on the fork tube to get the axle thru , then 1 of the forks is a different length , if it does not align , and the forks are at the same height in the clamps , then remove the one that is shorter , and reset the nut on the rebound , making sure both are equal in clicks

I understand. Manual says to use loctite on the rebound nut threads. Should I use high strength (Red) or medium strength (blue)? Also, one of the compression clickers turns about 1/4 turn (1/2 of a click) past it's full soft setting, whereas the compression clicker on the other fork stops at the last click. Is there a way to adjust the compression clicker so that it doesn't have that extra 1/4 turn after the last click? Does it make a difference either way?

You are still on the lighter springs correct ??

Yes

Keep a eye on what your "normal" travel is to see where its sitting , and take note of your clicker settings , , if your having to go almost all the way stiff and the forks are consistently lower in the stroke , then you will need the stiffer springs

I'm going to use the zip tie method you recommended. Does the same rule apply to the front sag as to the rear? If when I sit on the bike, the front compresses more than 1/3 of the full travel, then I need a stiffer spring (or more preload) right?

[mossman77]

Looking ahead...should I rebuild the rear shock as well? The bike doesn't have a whole lot of hours on it, but it is 8 years old. There's a really good YouTube instructional video on how to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiP2_AHViLs) so I'm confident I can do it. I would just need to take it somewhere to get it filled with nitrogen when I'm done. If recommended, what parts should I replace? Is this a good kit?: http://www.pivotworks.com/ProductInfo.aspx?item_id=1797

[JimDirt]

BEFORE YOU PUT THEM ON THE BIKE !

clicks

I understand. Manual says to use loctite on the rebound nut threads. Should I use high strength (Red) or medium strength (blue)? Also, one of the compression clickers turns about 1/4 turn (1/2 of a click) past it's full soft setting, whereas the compression clicker on the other fork stops at the last click. Is there a way to adjust the compression clicker so that it doesn't have that extra 1/4 turn after the last click? Does it make a difference either way?

You are still on the lighter springs correct ??

Yes

Keep a eye on what your "normal" travel is to see where its sitting , and take note of your clicker settings , , if your having to go almost all the way stiff and the forks are consistently lower in the stroke , then you will need the stiffer springs

I'm going to use the zip tie method you recommended. Does the same rule apply to the front sag as to the rear? If when I sit on the bike, the front compresses more than 1/3 of the full travel, then I need a stiffer spring (or more preload) right?

As far as the clicker being off from the other , its similar to the Rebound settings i mentioned , what that means is that in the compression cap assembly (Fork Cap Assembly) , the lock nut and top cap have been adjusted differently than the other side , this could be from manufacturing not being accurate/matched pairs , or it could have been taken apart at some point in its life and not measured/checked with the other side to make sure the clickers match , the adjustment is done in the same way , but the cap assembly locknut is loosened , then a holding tool to hold the Low Speed Valve is used while you turn in the 32mm nut at the top (the long skinny looking nut where the comp clicker is) , takes a 32mm 6 point socket , and moved slightly, then checked again to see if its the same as the other side , then tighten the locknut , then check again to make sure

Again , this must be done with the assembly out of the cartridge , but it does not have the same effect as the rebound does as far as fork overall length from it being different , BUT , if the one does not click the same amount as the other (16 clicks or whatever the actual number) , then yes that would be a issue and it would need to be taken apart and adjusted

I have never used any loctite on them , and never had one come loose

As far as front sag ,Yes if its over a percentage of travel then your already in the stroke so the valving is not opening/closing when it should in the stroke because your already past where the bike "should" sit on its own

[mossman77]

As far as the clicker being off from the other , its similar to the Rebound settings i mentioned , what that means is that in the compression cap assembly (Fork Cap Assembly) , the lock nut and top cap have been adjusted differently than the other side , this could be from manufacturing not being accurate/matched pairs , or it could have been taken apart at some point in its life and not measured/checked with the other side to make sure the clickers match , the adjustment is done in the same way , but the cap assembly locknut is loosened , then a holding tool to hold the Low Speed Valve is used while you turn in the 32mm nut at the top (the long skinny looking nut where the comp clicker is) , takes a 32mm 6 point socket , and moved slightly, then checked again to see if its the same as the other side , then tighten the locknut , then check again to make sure

Again , this must be done with the assembly out of the cartridge , but it does not have the same effect as the rebound does as far as fork overall length from it being different , BUT , if the one does not click the same amount as the other (16 clicks or whatever the actual number) , then yes that would be a issue and it would need to be taken apart and adjusted

I have the 32 mm 6pt socket and I see the nut you are referring to from the photo you posted, but what is this "holding tool" you speak of? Is it to hold the shaft in order to adjust the lock nut? Can I just use vice grips with a rag wrapped around the jaws?

[mossman77]

Regarding the rear shock rebuild kit, I can get all the equivalent OEM Showa parts for just about the same price, if not a tad cheaper, so that's likely what I'll do.

[JimDirt]

Looking ahead...should I rebuild the rear shock as well? The bike doesn't have a whole lot of hours on it, but it is 8 years old. There's a really good YouTube instructional video on how to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiP2_AHViLs) so I'm confident I can do it. I would just need to take it somewhere to get it filled with nitrogen when I'm done. If recommended, what parts should I replace? Is this a good kit?: http://www.pivotworks.com/ProductInfo.aspx?item_id=1797

Yes if you feel confident in your ability , its really no harder than doing the forks , just the bleeding process is different , and remember to push the Shrader valve to let the gas out before attempting to take it apart as the pressure is high (142psi) , but the volume is low so it will just go psst , and its empty , again , the manual is your friend , it will walk you thru the procedure

I personally bought my own Nitrogen tank , but its a spendy setup , but if you plan on doing it yourself all the time(yearly) then its worth the investment , the tank is about $150 , and the valves are about $250 , but you can buy a small tank which is about the size of a small hand held fire extinguisher (about the same size as the oxygen bottles people carry around) , at places like Norco , and a simple valve with a pressure adjuster and gauge and a hose with a air chuck , ( i got a medium size **about 2ft tall and about 8" around**)

But most shops only charge $5 -$10 to recharge for you , so whatever is more convenient/cost effective for you

[JimDirt]

Regarding the rear shock rebuild kit, I can get all the equivalent OEM Showa parts for just about the same price, if not a tad cheaper, so that's likely what I'll do.

Have you looked here to see what Ken charges ??

[mossman77]

No, I have not, but I'm sure it's more than $60 (cost of OEM Showa parts). I'd like to do it myself anyhow. Good learning experience. Here is what I ordered:

#11, Bumper
#13, Rod Guide Case
#14, Piston Ring
#16, O-rings (x2)
#18, Oil Seal Set
#19, 12mm x 1.25 nut
#21, Bladder

[JimDirt]

I meant what he charges for the aftermarket parts , not for him to do the work

, but your list is fine , don't forget Shock fluid , i prefer it to fork oil , its lighter and made specifically for shocks , its less foaming than fork oil which reduces cavitation , which can happen in shocks because of the heat they get from the exhaust

[mossman77]

I meant what he charges for the aftermarket parts

Oh, right. Of course

, but your list is fine , don't forget Shock fluid , i prefer it to fork oil , its lighter and made specifically for shocks , its less foaming than fork oil

Cool. Thanks again for all your help!

Hold on, what about the "holding tool" for adjusting the compression clicker lock nut?

[JimDirt]

What you can do is make one like this


or you can take a medium size Needle Nose Vice Grips , and clamp them closed and take a 3/8 drill , and drill a hole so to speak , or use a Dremel with a Metal Cutting bit (how i did mine), what you are doing is making so each side has a cup in it , so it will grasp the round low speed valve , , then grind down each side to make them slightly thinner so it will fit in between the low speed valve and the valve stack without touching any of the shims , you use the Needle Nose ones because the regular Vice Grips have a lip and are way thicker than the needle nose , and it has to be thin to get in between

Then clamp it down on it , then after loosening the lock nut you should be able to turn the top cap slightly (1/4" or so) and see if its set the same as the other side , then tighten the lock nut , and remove the vice grips and your done

Like this
(these are mine that i modified , and what i use , i tried doing the wrench , but i kept breaking the pins because i was using the wrong material for the pin , i ended up messing with the vice grips , and they worked so i never bothered to find stronger pin material for the wrench)

[mossman77]

I like the vice grip idea. I'll be honest--I'm not going to adjust the compression clicker this go around. I've taken those forks apart so many times in the past week that I don't care to do it again. I'm sure I won't be able to tell the difference. I'll fix it when I inevitably put stiffer springs in.