[mossman77]

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I did notice after installing the 5.9kg/mm rear spring, that the front end nose dived when I scooted towards the tank. I'll give the 4.2 kg/mm springs a whirl and see how they feel, but will likely be going stiffer. Will setting my clickers towards the harder setting (full hard?) help reduce nose dive with the 4.2kg/mm springs?

[JimDirt]

Yes it will help , if you need to go to the last few clicks all the way stiff to get it not to dive and feel good (experiment) then that is even more of a sign that the springs are too soft , you can also add some oil to the forks (10cc at a time in both tubes), you can add it thru the bleed screw , or you can remove the top of the cap (the big outer hex nut at the very top of the fork tube) , just loosen the top clamp bolts so it can be loosened , you can do this on a bike stand and undo both , then lift the front wheel so it exposes enough of a hole so you can pour in the oil , as this is faster than trying to do it thru the bleed hole, 10cc in each tube , then reassemble (torque the upper clamp to the correct setting) and test ride and see if its better or worse


You can also put a zip tie on one fork leg (the lower chrome part) , put it up near the seal , it needs to be tight enough not to fall down , but loose enough so it will move with some but not forceful effort , what this will do when your riding is give a idea of where your riding in the stroke , check this on flat ground , as well as a "normal" terrain you would encounter on a typical ride , it will stop at the lowest point the fork travels , so it will give a indication of how much of the travel you are using , if its constantly down to the lower part of the tube (check it and reset it often over varying terrain while testing) , then it means your riding too far down in the stroke , and will need stiffer springs , its ok to use most of the travel , just not constantly

[mossman77]

Great idea! I'll be sure to do that. It's extremely important to me to have the suspension dialed in properly so it is not inhibiting my learning or worse cause an accident that could have otherwise been avoided with the proper setup. Thanks again, and I'll let you know how it goes.

[JimDirt]

lol i edited again while you were posting

Re-read my above post !

[mossman77]

Experiment with oil level. Got it

I'm going to go ahead and pull the forks and replace the seals. I doubt the fork oil has ever been changed. Other than the main seal and the dust seal (sold as a pair from Honda), are there any other wear items I should replace while I have them apart? Also, Honda recommends 5WT oil, but I just watched a YouTube video where someone added 2/3 5WT and 1/3 10WT to stiffen things up. Is this kosher?

[mossman77]

I've decided to replace all the fork o-rings, even though the manual only points out a couple to replace. They're only $2 a pop. I also ordered a couple liters of Maxima 5WT fork oil.

[JimDirt]

While you have it apart , check to make sure the Free Piston Seal is good , you can check this by taking the inner chamber , and pushing it all the way in , then let the rod go , it should extend all the way on its own , it should stay out and not suck back in , if it does go back in , then the Free Piston Seal is bad , i can walk you thru changing it if necessary

Also , if your going to the extent of changing the O-Rings , then i would also change the bushings , since its all apart it will be best to do it now at the start of the riding season , this way you wont have fork bind , from worn out bushings , so your suspension will work better and be easier to tune

NOTE:
If the rod sucks back in then you will have to remove the inner chamber from the assembly (32mm 6 point socket will remove it , while holding the outer nut with the special Fork Cap Wrench) , the Free Piston Seal is in there inside that piston

[mossman77]

Would you mind providing the item numbers from the parts fiche for the bushings and seals you are referring to? At this point, I have ordered a seal kit (item 21), and items 30, 31, 32, 34, and 35. Are you suggesting I replace 11 and 17 as well?

[JimDirt]

You only need 7 and 8 , the 2 part # 17 are in the inner chamber and you should not have to replace them , its the outer chamber bushings (the ones on the chrome tube) #7 and 8 that you would most likely need to replace , the Free Piston seal is not available from Honda OEM parts , you have to go aftermarket on that , like Race Tech or Factory Connection , etc , otherwise you would need to replace the Inner Cartridge which would be over $100 (Part # 15)

[mossman77]

Okay. I'll add 7 and 8 to my order then. I guess I'll just leave the free piston seal as-is. To be certain, when you say "only need", you mean in addition to what I already ordered right?

[JimDirt]

No , you do not need items 30, 31, 32, 34, and 35 , you can replace them if you like as it won't hurt anything if you do , but they do not wear that much so you could get away without them , but again , if your in there , then go ahead

You DO NEED items 7 and 8 and 21 (21 comes as a kit , seal and Dust Seal *2 parts*) , which i always use Factory Honda Seals , they just work better than All Balls as per my experience , the O-Rings are for the inner cartridge and for the rebound adjuster (32) , which you would not necessarily need unless you were having severe leakage from within the inner cartridge after replacing (if needed) the Free Piston Seal which would fix the cartridge rod from extending ....... and again , if the Free Piston Seal does show bad (by the test i explained) then you will need to get it from another source , unless you can PM Ken and see if he does in fact stock the seal , as i could not find it in his Suspension Parts area of this site

But Honda wont sell it to you , only the entire Fork Cap Assembly which as mentioned is over $100 , the seal is like $10-$15 and a bit of physical labor , so the choice is yours , with the stock valving you can go either way , but again , that is per side , so $200+ vs $20+ if the seal/s are bad

[mossman77]

Gotcha. I already ordered the o-rings so I'll go ahead and replace them. I ordered the Honda seal kits last night, along with a fork bullet and fork seal tool. Already have the cap wrench and holder tool. I'll order the bushings (7 and this evening. Thanks again. Maxima 5WT okay?

[JimDirt]

Yep ! , that's what i use !!

Any issues , just ask !;)

[mossman77]

I appreciate it. Offhand, I'm a bit confused as to why the inner tube gets filled with a specific amount of oil, the catridge gets installed, then you're supposed to tip the fork on its side to drain the oil out of the bleed holes that was just put in. Is it to ensure the tube gets filled completely before installing the cartridge? And you're simply draining out the excess?

I haven't found any good videos online for servicing the Showa fork. It would be nice if someone would put a writeup in the How-To section. Hint hint.

[JimDirt]

Yes , basically what your trying to do is bleed it , as air in the chamber would not allow the valving to work as efficiently (cavitation) , so the compression valving (the fork cap assembly) and the rebound valving (what is attached (inside the cartridge) to the long rod that slides in and out) needs to be in a air free environment , which is why if the free piston seal goes bad it sucks air and the suspension will work like crap , but just dumping oil in and adding too much would make it all but impossible to get the fork cap assembly pushed , as it is you have to kind of force it in slowly to get all the air out without blowing the fluid out

Have you watched any of the Race Tech videos ?? , they at least show you the basics

Also search thru some of the suspension topics here , i know i gave a few basic "how to's" , to help others thru a fork and shock service , including the Free Piston Seal repair , i am still learning this stuff myself , i have only been really doing valving and stuff since about 2011 , i did fork and shock services since the late 70's early 80's , but no re-valves prior to 11 , anyway , check out the Race Tech Video's if you have not already

Fork:
http://www.racetech.com/page/id/136
Shock:
http://www.racetech.com/page/id/138