[MattBennett23]

Hey guys,

From what I understand, you are supposed to change out the crush washers on the oil and transmission oil drain plug, every time you change the oil. Also the bolt to drain the radiator has a copper crush washer on it that should be replaced when radiator is drained.

My question is that I have found the Bolt CRF Bolt Drain Plug Washer Kit. All the washers are aluminum. Is there a reason to use a copper washer in any of these instead of aluminum, or is aluminum ok for all of them? The kit is like $5. One of the OEM washers is like $2, which is ridiculous. Does anyone know the size of these washers for the oil drains and radiator fluid drain, and can these be bought at a hardware store? I see sealing washers at the store, with a 10 pack for like $2, and if they are the same thing I'd rather spend $5 at the hardware store and be set for years.....

Second question is bolt torque. Do you guys torque the oil drain bolts? The oil filter cover bolts? The radiator drain bolt? Manual shows 12 ft/lb for the oil drains, 9 ft/lb for the oil filter cover bolts, and 7 ft/lb for the radiator drain bolt. Do you guys torque these or just do it by feel? Also which bolts do you normally torque doing routine maintenance?

Thanks!

[Back2-2]

First - I use a torque wrench for every nut and bolt that it is possible. Begin an engineer I believe in the values that have been assigned to the given nuts and bolts. Others may feel differently but my belief is that the engineers that designed that item researched what it should be fastened with and state it in the tech manuals for that very reason.

Ok - the seal washers. Yes you can buy then many places as in here from Ken or the local parts stores. Copper is used in cooling / liquid systems for corrosion resistance compared to aluminum.
If you want to do it by the book you should change the sealing washers every time the drain bolts / plugs are removed. For what it's worth they will work repeatedly many times over and also can be annealed with a butane torch to revive them.

Hope that helps.

[MattBennett23]

Thanks Neil!

I am just starting to do all the maintenance on my bike. My Uncle has always done it all for me, and since I am 37 and he is pushing 70, I figured its time to start doing it myself!

Seems there are two groups from my research. Those who torque everything, and those who torque nothing. I will probably end up on the torque side, since I tend to overthink things and get a little OCD about stuff...

So if I'm understanding you right, aluminum is ok for the engine oil and transmission oil washers, but I should try to get copper for the coolant drain washer, right? I looked at Bolts website and you can actually buy 50 of the aluminum washers for the oil drain plug for $15, so I may do that and not worry about it again for a long time.... Do you know what size the copper washer is on the coolant drain? I suppose I only chain the coolant at most once a year so I can pony up the $2 for the OEM washer, but if it is something I can find elsewhere much cheaper, I would like to have a supply of 5-10 on hand.

Again thanks for the help!

[Back2-2]

Sounds like you are on the right path to becoming a very good mechanic.
You can find both copper and aluminum at most all auto stores. I do not off hand know the size for the radiator seal. There is two oil sizes, trans & engine . There is also two different ones for the coolant, radiator and water pump.

As for using a torque wrench - as you learn and do more wrenching you will learn a "feel" for proper assembly and what feels right when torquing things down. But, why learn by stripping or breaking bolts and nuts when the engineers have giving you the proper torque settings to use on the giving parts assembly ?
Every elbow has a different feel when tightening things down - some elbows will run light and not tight enough, some elbows will run heavy and over torque things. Over tight tends to be the norm and that leads to eventual stripped or broken bolts and also stretched bolts - all eventual failures that can be avoided with a torque wrench. Your call. But I would like to stress that you get a factory manual and take time to study it as you do repairs.

Good luck and congratulations for being on the road to a very satisfying skill you will be learning. There are many other things to learn to proper assembly procedures. Things like - dry threads, lubricated threads, cold creeper, torque patterns, ect... It's a whole big world out there putting things together !

[Back2-2]

I am going to add one thing here for you - Just for you to be aware.
I have read over the year of people snapping off the one longer bolt on the oil filter cover. So consequently most all say to NOT torque those two bolts to the specification recommended. The cover has an o-ring that does the dealing and bolts are there to only hold the cover in place. I believe that most of the bolts that people broken off are do to previous over torquing but for whatever reason it's something to be aware of use your own judgement. My recommendation is to still use the torque wrench but start at about half the recommended torque and work up to 80-90% of the recommend torque of those two bolts. It is possible the engineer's may have made an error or over engineered that particular torque requirement - they have been know to mess up once in the while...

[MattBennett23]

Neil,

Thanks again for all the helpful advice! I really do appreciate it. My Uncle taught me to ride when I was 12 and has been doing all the work on the bikes for me since. He was a certified mechanic and def knows what he is doing. He has the highly tuned elbow you speak of, lol... I asked him about all of this and he says, well I probably should, but he never uses the torque wrench on anything for routine maintenance. Very little for anything actually, only really precise engine work. But I am not a mechanic, lol...

I have heard the same about the oil filter cover bolts.

I do have the Honda Service Manual for my bike. It is much better than the Owners Manual which is not a lot of help on this stuff. I did notice that the 04-06 models have different torque settings than the 07-later models in many cases, including the engine oil drain plug. I wonder if they had a change in materials, or if they just realized the specs were too high....

Again I appreciate all the help, and appreciate the encouragement. I often times feel like I have no idea what I am doing compared to a lot of people out there, but there is only one way to learn right! My torque wrenches are coming next week, but I did change the oils and oil filters already. Just did the bolts to feel, and they all sealed ok with the old washers so I guess I am good for this time... In the future I will be torquing most bolts, but I agree that the o-ring does the real work on the oil filter cover, so those will probably just be to feel and tight enough to seal. Might be a bad idea since wrestling to get the filter cover off and on around my skid plate is a pain in the rear, and I may have a bit of angry in my elbow when tightening those, lol... (I refuse to take the skid plate off everytime I change my oil filter....)

Gonna change out the coolant next, and clean my air filter, and I should be good to go for a bit.