[bpamp]

Hi, folks,

Grrrrr--if this post appears twice, blame AOL, which I am just about ready to dump; I wrote a long post and got bumped off as I tried to submit it...

The gist was this: Today I rode technical trails for the first time (hooray for me!)--all in 1st gear, of course. I was working on throttle control and balance and I noticed something. Sometimes when I hit a bump or am otherwise tossed back a little, I grab the handlebars, accidently twist the throttle, and accelerate too much. The net result this time was to launch myself up and over a tree stump on the trail... Any suggestions to keep myself from doing this--in addition to practicing, of course

One other thing. Today on those twisty-turny trails I really felt the infamous weight of the 230. I really like the power and smoothness of my 230, but sometimes wonder if it's too much bike for me. I've barely begun to learn to ride it, but it seems like things would be much easier with a little fleaflicker that weights 60 lbs less! Is it just a trade-off between power and weight?

A related question: my bike's previous owner put on BBR suspension upgrades which, as I understand it, raise the bike a bit. Before I bought it, the guys at the dealership lowered it as much as they could. I can touch the balls of both feet on flat ground but it feels a little tall on uneven ground. How much lower would the bike be if I went back to the stock suspension?

Pardon the looong post--I'm the only person I know with a dirt bike so you folks get all my questions!

Thanks for any advice/info you can provide.

Barbara

[ev]

...I grab the handlebars, accidently twist the throttle, and accelerate too much
stand up, keep your body perpendicular to level ground and let the bike 'work' underneath you
yes, it sounds simple, but it will take a while for you to react instinctivly
practise it going up and down a bank, find some uneven ground and keep going back and forth slowly

...on those twisty-turny trails I really felt the infamous weight of the 230
'xcuse me, Barb, it is not the bike, it mostlikely is you
yes, again it takes time and experience, but once you let the bike do the 'work' it will be a lot easier on you, plus hmm, dirtriding is physical demanding, the shorter you are, the less leverage you can use, the more sheere muscular power or riding technique you need

...it seems like things would be much easier with a little fleaflicker
but those tend to be smokers and you will not love their 'bite', your lil' stump puller is much gentler on the rider

...How much lower would the bike be if I went back to the stock suspension?
sorry can not answer that, but how is your suspension set up? might a little bit softer already do the trick?
mere curiosity, how tall are you? longlegged?

I'm the only person I know with a dirt bike so you folks get all my questions
nope, you know us
the more detailed your question, the better your chance to get a satisfactory answer
just go on asking

ev

[crfsonly]

barbara...ev gives you great advice. i'll add my .02 worth here.

...I grab the handlebars, accidently twist the throttle, and accelerate too much

this is also known as the 'panic rev' position. a lot of new riders will start in a riding position where their arms(elbows) are high...causing their hands to grip the throttle in an extreme forward position. when they 'panic' they instinctively clinch the grips and straighten their arms, which has the natural effect of rotating the throttle to an increased 'open' position. the result is to accelerate which is just the opposite of what they probably want to do. when this happens many will say, 'i don't know what happened, the bike just took off all by itself'.

i know this isn't exactly what you're doing but it's similar. it's natural when first learning to ride to rely too much on the handlebars to stay with the bike. if you watch experienced riders you'll see them standing most of the time. this has many advantages, shifting weight and center of gravity, absorbing shock, control, etc. practice standing over your bike as much as possible. practice 'blipping' the throttle to bring the front up while you maintain a controlled and neutral body position. when your confidence increases then find a nice log in the open and give it a go. when hit an obstacle like this you need to remember that your bike will decelerate when the back tire hits the obstacle. if you are in a advanced forward position when this happens you could lose body control and end up over the bars. don't ask me how i know this. knowing how much throttle to 'grab' will come with experience. lets just say it's not a one size fits all and you'll move your throttle position around a lot through the course of a ride.

regarding the weight of the bike...if you've ever tried windsurfing what ev said will make since. i tried it once and was paralized the next day with muscle soreness. my experienced friend windsurfed all day and wasn't a bit sore. he used it weight and body position to control the board/sail...me i was using nothing but upper body strength. body position on your bike is so important. it will come with practice. if you can tape a pro race and watch it again and again it will help you understand what we're talking about.

i really do think you are on the right bike....you're doing great...keep it up, on the trails and asking questions here.

ken

[wade]

Hey Barb, getting off balance and twisting the throttle is a common mistake, you just have to learn to keep your balance centered. As far as a smaller bike, once you get comfortable with the 230 you will be glad you got it , if you go to a smaller bike you will most likely out grow it in your skill level. Keep riding and it will come with time.

[bpamp]

Thanks, folks, for your replies. I am actually encouraged...and reminded to be patient. I mean, I've ridden the bike four times--shouldn't I be an expert by now Seriously, you've reassured me that I will, indeed, grow into this bike, both in terms of strength and skill, and that I didn't make a mistake.

BTW, what does the term "overgrip" mean? I thought it meant having your throttle hand rotated a bit forward so you're ready to twist without bending your wrist too low. That may be one reason for the panic rev in my case. But as Ev and CRFsonly both said, I also need to rely on more than my hands to control the bike. I can tell by how blasted sore I am in the shoulders and neck that I was really tense and wrestling the bike with my upper body, instead of using my legs. I'm also afraid to stand on the trails; instead, I want to sit so I can be ready to put a foot down...

Speaking of that, Ev, I'm about 5'4" tall (or should I say, short) and 130 (or so , so I don't have tons of leverage. I stand a lot in other types of terrain but standing up in the woods seems pretty scary at this point. Also, I measured my seat height and it's the same as stock. With the BBR link and spring, sag is probably less than stock, but maybe not all that much...

Anyhow, thank you for your feedback. This weekend, I'll work on standing up and on letting the bike do the work. I may actually be recovered by then

I'm looking forward to it already!

Barbara
(BTW, it's Barbara not Barb)

[crfsonly]

barbara...i love your enthusiasm for learning to ride! regarding the 'over-grip' you understood it correctly. basically it means grabbing too much throttle for the next manuever.

as far as standing up...remember to 'pinch' the bike with your knees/legs. this will give you great feel for the bike and your body position and help create leverage to adjust both.

now i can't wait for your next ride report!

ken

[ev]

...remember to 'pinch' the bike with your knees/legs ...

one more detail on that, Barbara see me bow my head and apologize for crippling your name?

if you stand, STAND
if you sit, SIT
sounds simple?
watch other riders, you will see lots of them in what we call the out-house-position
= doing half a squad while standing
= very exhausting, not much control

to move your weight forth or back rotate around the footpegs and bend your hips
bend your knees only to feather the bikes up and down movement underneath you
do not really 'pinch' with the knees, let the bike move, while you stay vertical relative to level ground,
your pivot are NOT the knees, it is your footpegs and your hips,
if on an incline your bike raises its nose your knees move further to the front, your hips straighten,
if your bike lowers its nose on a decline no matter how small, your knees move backwards and your hips bend so you can still reach the bars,
if you lean your bike sideways in a turn you bend in the waist and shoulders or if you sit you pivot around your seat to stay upright,
one arm will stretch out, one will bend, to balance the bar movement
but your ellbows always stay above your barends

keep your lower back straight and really bend in the hips not in the back, no matter how silly this feels at first,
you will avoid a bad backache the next day

try this slowly over not to big woops, then on a bank, then on a hill,
exaggerate in the beginning, just to get used to the feeling and motion
watch fast riders that look elegant and/or effortless

and then come back and ask all the new questions you have

[wade]

Standing on the trails like many other thing will get more comfortable over time, like CRF's said just remember to "pinch " the tank with your knees. Take it slow and you'll get it. You have to crawl before you walk. By the way can we call you Babs?

[crfsonly]

barbara...ev mentions several great tips. thinking about pivot points is very important. as your skill increases you'll learn when to place the balls of your feet on the peg and when to be directly over your pegs. by having the balls of your feet on the peg you actually create another usuable pivot point foot-ankle.

the main thing for you as you learn to stand is staying aware of your body position relative to the bike and learning how to control both as you ride through "trail-trash".

on a bike setup note. make sure your brake and shifters are setup such that they are comfortably useable in the standing position.

enjoy....ken

[Gordon]

I agree with Ev: When standing on the pegs for a stretch of particularly rough ground, or when maneuvering over an obstacle, I don't pinch the tank with my knees at all. I do quite the opposite, in fact, trying to remain fluid, and letting the bike work freely under me.

If you remain fluid when standing, the rider's weight drops to the level of the footpegs, thus lowering the center of gravity. If you remain fixed and rigid when standing, then you're actually raising the center of gravity higher than it was when sitting, and abrupt movements of the bike can upset the rider's balance.

Different styles work equally well for different riders, though, so it may just be a case of what's more comfortable for the individual, or what the rider grows accustomed to. I've seen superb riders who rocket through the woods while hardly ever standing, and others who stand more often than not.

Sometimes I think the only two rules that always apply are: 1. Be quicker than anyone else, and 2. Never fall off.

[bpamp]

Well, I've finally recovered from last weekend--I was sore all week--just in time to abuse myself again this weekend Speaking of that, I wear the basic protecto-gear (boots, gloves, helmet, and goggles) but don't have any extra padding anywhere (well, in some spots there's extra padding That may be one reason I was so sore this week; one of my crashes was a bit hard on the old bod (and I say "old" with some accuracy). I'm not crazy about the typical outfits from Fox, Thor, etc., and so don't have moto-style pants or jersey. What do you guys wear for pants and top?

Wade asked, "Can we call you Babs?" Hmmmm, let me think, well..... ummmm, uh, that would be "no."

I shall be standing, relaxed, going with the flow, keeping the C of G low, and letting the bike do the work this weekend. Wish me luck.

I hope you all have a chance to ride...

Barbara

[wade]

My pants are Moose with a loose Thor jersey. The pants give you a little more padding in the hips. I would also suggest a chest protector.

[ev]

I wear the basic protecto-gear (boots, gloves, helmet, and goggles) but don't have any extra padding anywhere

shin guards!!!
ellbow protectors!!!
roost protector, yes, but not a matter of live and death, tho mine looks pretty worn from live oak jumping at me, twigs whipping, friends (?) roosting ...

what is it about the mx gear you dislike? the looks, the fit, the price?
I do not like looking like a parrot on the run and I do not like the modern pants made of 400 pieces in 17 different materials with 38 scuffing seams
but I found a new pair of vintage Sinisalo pants in plain dark blue and wear a black/blue Gecco jersey under my Axo-Thor-mix roost protector
NO cotton because it soaks up sweat, feels like wearing a wet wag
mx-gear lasts a lot longer than 'normal' clothes, it does not rip as easy, the cut with some elastic panels built in and room for protectors makes it more comfortable

[bpamp]

Ev wrote,

"What is it about mx gear you dislike? The looks, the fit, the price?"

All of the above...okay, I haven't tried any on but I just can't bring myself to look like that Guess I'm not the flashy type, though I am interested in protection and safety. It only took one ride in running shoes for me to realize I needed proper boots. And it doesn't take much imagination to see what'll happen if I clip a tree trunk with a kneecap or elbow, so I've been thinking about at least getting some guards. Good brands?

Here's another question--it kind of fits under riding techniques, though I seem to wander off topic a lot:

What kind of warm-ups, if any, do you folks do before or after riding? Stretches and the like? Hot tub Massage? I was so sore after last Sunday I had to pop aspirin almost all week.

Barbara

[Monkeywrench]

Barb,

if you think of riding like going to the gym for the first time in a while, it can help explain *some* of the soreness. You may be using muscles (to stand, position yourself while riding, and even handling the bike) that you may not use in your normal everyday routine. Minus the crashing, this might be similar to raking the leaves the first time each fall... Often the next day it's like, "ooh, I have muscles THERE?"

If you make riding a regular daily event, the soreness will become less and less... because you're conditioning yourself by the riding. *...if the sorensss isn't from crashing... THAT no one can (or should) get too terribly accustomed to* But many of us do not have the time to ride daily... and soon the daylight will escape us before we can break free from our 9-5's each day.

A good suggestion (and even motocross riders may agree) may be to make time daily, or every other day, for some light conditioning exersizes (squats, crunches, aerobics). And you don't have to overdo it. It's amazing what a little time invested in the condition of our physical health can do for us both long term and hobby-wise as well. Upper body and leg strength will come in handy, though you do not need to become a body builder at all. I read a motocross article geared toward younger riders that was ended something like this: "with physical training and gym time: you don't have to be big (muscular) to ride motocross, so don't train that way".


now... making daily time for exercise and weight lifiting - that can sometimes be as challenging is riding itself. America's battle as a country. Myself included.

Good luck, and enjoy this. Remember it's a stress reliever! And an awesome one at that.

matt