2003 450R died while driving
  • daspixl
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    Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

    2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Fri May 21, 2021 5:13 pm

    So here is the story, went for a ride last night through a few tight trails, then about 20 minutes down a dirt road, wasn't a real warm night. Heading back home and stalled a couple of times when i slowed down. Then out of nowhere it stalled and would not start again. Seemed as if kick starter was harder than normal to kick over.
    Today, I pulled the plug and checked that, all ok. Coolant ok, oil ok. Put choke on kicked it over a ran as normal.
    Any ideas on what may have caused this to happen.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by JimDirt » Fri May 21, 2021 10:39 pm

    Welcome to the site !! \:D/

    A bit more details would be helpful

    Where you were riding , was it someplace you normally ride without issues ?? , was it a dramatic change in elevation and temperature ?? , you said when it sat and you started it , it started fine .... did you ride it ?? , and was it also fine then ??

    Also when you had the issue , did you try the Hot Start ?? , and it still would not start ?? , how were you able to get it started when it stalled ?? and if so how and how long did it take ??

    It could be several things , anything from stator , carb issues , a gas cap vent clogged , even valves , even the ECU/ECM , sometimes when they are going bad , they give signs like once they get hot then they shut down , and once they cool , then they work again .....

    Have you checked any of the wiring connections to make sure nothing is partially connected and hitting a bump or something makes it sputter or bog ??

    There are lots of variables , so the more detail , the better . and if you have a manual and a multi meter , you can test all the electrical system to eliminate or confirm each part

    But you need to rule out each thing , try checking the float level , make sure it is not sticking and maybe running the bowl out of gas by sticking the needle/seat closed , then freeing itself ..... make sure the electrical checks out .... eliminate the valves as the culprit ...

    If it is starting and running now , do a test ride to see if it happens again ..
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • daspixl
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    Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:56 pm

    Ok back to this again, found out that the right crank seal was leaking, replaced that, left counter balancer seal and bearings. Started ran fine, went for quick test drive tonight. Stalled out again. Kick starter stuck in upright position, won’t kick over but I can roll it in neutral. Not sure if top end is seized! Any advice from the experts would be great.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by JimDirt » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:40 pm

    So you are saying engine will not turn over at all correct ???

    So the kickstart seems to be doing the same basic thing both times .... , What I would do is pull the plug ... look at the plug itself for any damage ...... then see if the engine will turn over with kickstart without the plug in ... if not ... one last try ... remove the large round plug on the clutch side , and put a socket on the bolt (counter balancer) and see if it will turn there ... if not then either timing chain has locked up somehow , or yea ... the engine is seized , or a crank bearing has gone south ... :-k

    Hopefully a valve did not drop and hit the piston .... it can drop in one of 2 ways .... either the valve keeper fell out and the valve physically dropped ..... or the valve was so wore down the valve head broke off .... ,, basically , if the engine will not turn over you will need to start a disassembly process , during which you at some point in the disassembly will find the culprit .... but it is not sounding good at this point ... it could be something simple like the timing chain tensioner broke and is jammed and causing the engine to be stuck , or the crank , or a broken skirt on the piston .... all those could be probable causes for it to be locked up ...
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • daspixl
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:35 am

    So I. Heckled this morning before going to work, put bike in gear rolled it backwards then tried kick starter with hand and was able to get it to move, not sure if that gives any indication of issues.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by JimDirt » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:15 am

    Move , as in just move ?? , or were you able to fully kick over the engine , and it started and seemed free/normal and ran again ????
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • daspixl
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:24 am

    Just did with my hand to see if it would move. Didn’t want to possibly break something by trying full kick. Now saying that the last time it happened I did the same thing (roll it back) and was able to start it and ride for about 1/2 hour then it stalled and locked again.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by JimDirt » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:42 pm

    Well , to me if it is running fine then stalling and locking , I would think either the kick start mechanism is catching somehow , like maybe the one way gear is catching somehow .... or it is something with the timing chain itself , or maybe the flywheel locating pin , the rolling it backwards is the key and clue here . so what is happening is that whatever is bound up is being released when the engine turns backwards , so that is what leads me to think timing chain or something within the kickstart assembly , catching ... maybe when it stalls the engine slightly kicks back and is putting something where it would not normally be ... but again , the part in question would have to be worn or damaged in order for it to do that ... so again , eliminate the suspect parts .......

    Try this ...... Remove the spark plug (to relieve the compression) lay the bike on its left side , like with the bars on a crate , or 5 gallon pail upside down or something ... remove the 6 bolts from the clutch cover , and try rotating the engine with the kick starter by hand , and see if you notice anything odd , like skipping , or something not returning ... if you do not find anything out of the ordinary , then replace the cover , place the bike on a stand , and remove the timing chain tensioner (2 bolts) , see if it comes out in 1 piece , and the ram is not pulled out and flopping around .... I am wondering if the tensioner is broke and that is causing all this ... , also try rotating the engine backwards with the wheel , and forwards with the kickstart (plug is still removed at this point) and see if you notice anything ( this is all with the tensioner out)
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • daspixl
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    Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:10 pm

    Ok finally got a chance to check some things, plug out, tensioner out (looks fine) slow movement on kickstart with hand and can hear a clicking noise from cylinder head, seems to be on exhaust stroke just before TDC. Possible dropped valve? And would that explain my issues?
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by JimDirt » Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:27 pm

    No . the "clicking" would be the decompressor working (once per rotation) , that is normal ... especially on a slow rotation ..... With the plug out , by hand , you should be able to get complete rotations , basically until you stop at the end of the kickstart stroke ,
    then each time you bring it back up to full movement again ...doing it by hand , you should feel the difference of compression stroke as opposed to exhaust stroke even with the plug out , though the resistance would be much less without the plug

    I am still led to believe by your description that this is a issue with the kick starter mechanism , that something is not returning , either the spring is slipped off partially , or is broken , or even a case bearing is bad and it is binding , or even the clutch basket bearing is worn/bad and it is causing the kick start to bind , as the kickstart operates off the clutch ring gear at the back of the basket :-k
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • daspixl
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:44 pm

    Ok, next chance I get between all the farm work, I'll drain the oil and pull right side cover for further inspection. Thanks for all your advice so far. You have been a great help
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by JimDirt » Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:29 am

    You can just lay the bike on it's side on your lift stand or a milk crate , with the grip on the lift/crate , then pull the cover , makes working on it easier , and you don't have to drain the oil .. ;)
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • daspixl
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    Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:53 am

    Going to try and post a video. This is kickstart with it in neutral. Sprocket not free wheeling

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/98rq64ka6gt7175/IMG_3275.MOV?dl=0
  • daspixl
    Posts: 11
    Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by daspixl » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:31 am

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    JimDirt
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    Re: 2003 450R died while driving

    by JimDirt » Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:02 pm

    It looks like the one video that you were kicking it while in gear and it seemed to be turning over fine , as far as the engine turning goes , but when you had it in neutral is when it locked up ??? , at least that is what I think was what I was seeing ..... , To me there is a issue with a gear somewhere ... if you pull the clutch basket all the way out , look for broken teeth or some kind of wear damage to the teeth on any gears behind the clutch basket and the gears for the kickstart ,as the kickstart mechanism has some progressive teeth and allow it to skip over themselves while returning , then when you kick they engage , so it is under spring tension , so it goes back in place ....

    The way it locks up like that , would suggest to me that either a tooth is broken , even possibly in the tranny , and under certain conditions it is binding or jammed , then when you rotate the wheel backwards it releases the bind and all is well again , so still leading to a gear or bearing with a issue , and that may contribute to the actual stalling , because it gets caught and then locks the engine or just binds it up enough to kill it , then you struggle with it , then roll it backwards , it frees up and you go about your ride ... :-k 8-[

    Also if you use YouTube , you can copy/paste the video itself into your post , just like you did the links you did , but it is directly from/on the video itself , and the video itself will show up in your post

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    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho

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