Bike over heating
  • Ande780
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    Bike over heating

    by Ande780 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:02 pm

    I just had some questions about my 2005 CRF450R. I bought this bike about a year ago and everything was fine for last year of riding. I did oil changes every 6-8 hours on it, got a new air filter and all the basic maintenance stuff done on it. Once winter came, I had it stored in a heated shop and on a nice day I moved it to a different shop that isn’t heated. When I brought it down, everything was fine. It sat for about 2 weeks through a cold snap that got down to -30C and then after it warmed back up I went to take it for a ride and started it up and within 5 minutes I noticed it was over heating while idling. I quickly turned it off, checked for any leaks and found nothing. There was now coolant dripping out of the weep hole, only puking out of the overflow. I let it sit maybe thinking it was vapour locked or possible a little ice build up. I started it again after topping it up with coolant and only let it idle for 15 seconds then took it for a lap around the yard. It all seemed good until I came back to a stop and it instantly over heated again. I haven’t had time to look at it recently but that same day I took it back to the shop that was heated for when I do look at it. 2 weeks have gone by and tonight I decided to check some things. The water pump seems good and there isn’t much play in the bearing. The oil didn’t seem too murky and I even flushed the coolant system through with water and found no blockages. I decided to kick it over once more and writhing 10 seconds it started to over heat and the exhaust manifold went cherry red hot.... Any ideas of what I could check?? I’m stumped
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by JimDirt » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:10 pm

    Welcome to the site !! \:D/

    Some clarification is needed in a few areas .....

    You mentioned it was dripping thru the "weep hole" , then mentioned it was "puking out the overflow" ..... So my question is .... Was it dripping out of the weep hole for the water pump , AND dripping out the overflow ??? , or was it one and not the other ??? , which would mean the "weep hole" you mentioned was the overflow hose ??

    When you fired it up (I am assuming in reading what you said , that) , it was only stored for a few weeks , correct ???

    Did you hear any popping out of the muffler when letting off the throttle or when revving it ??? (this would indicate a lean condition , which would cause overheating quicker than if it was not lean) , what type of gas was/is in it ???? , Non Ethanol Premium ?? , Ethanol pump gas ?? *still should be premium* , Race Gas ?? , Av Gas ?? ...... And how old/how long ago was the gas put in the tank ?? , Was the carb drained when stored ?? (the bike run till it ran out and fuel valve shut off , or the drain screw or plug in the bowl was loosened and all gas was removed *after the fuel valve was shut off*)

    You mentioned the oil was "murkey" , like dirty oil that needs changed murkey ?? , or watery gray milky murkey , indicating a coolant or gasket issue ??

    Was there any coolant on the ground when you moved the bike from the first location ?? , or after moving to the warmer location ?? ..... if so where was it located , near the water pump ?? , or overflow hose ??

    Did you look over the Radiator Cap ??

    :-k 8-[
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • Ande780
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    Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:48 pm

    Re: Bike over heating

    by Ande780 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:12 am

    There was no dripping from the weep hole. Only spilling out the over flow. The type of gas in it is premium from the pump at the gas station but it’s the remanding gas and some new stuff added from last year. Could be about 6 months old. I didn’t drain the carb when storing because I figured it would still be nice enough to ride this winter and that just didn’t come to mind. And yes, it ran fine the first time and then about 2 weeks later when I started it up after the cold snap, it over heated. The oil **Is not murky** and the radiator cap seems fine. It literally heats up in just a couple seconds after start up. There’s no coolant dripping when riding or just sitting there not running but the moment I start it up, it starts pouring out the overflow
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by JimDirt » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:18 am

    OK ..... First the gas ..... if its older than 3 months , put it in your car or lawn mower , these bikes do not like it , if its older than that ... the Ethanol makes it go bad quickly and it WILL clog your pilot jet ....., especially if it has Ethanol , so drain ALL the gas in the tank and carb and put FRESH Non Ethanol Premium in ...

    Second , is the spewing out the cap right away , that to me would mean the Radiator cap is bad ....... and/or you have a air pocket for some reason (these systems function kind of like a sealed system , and if a air bubble gets into the system , it will not circulate , so it needs to be "burped") , you can try tilting the bike from side to side with the radiator cap off , and see if bubbles come out of the radiator where the cap goes , if so then there is air preventing the coolant from flowing correctly and you need to continue burping till it does not do that , including cranking the engine over by hand so the water pump can circulate and hopefully push the air out .... but my first thought is the cap is allowing coolant to go past and is not holding under the pressure of the system ....when you remove the cap , is the coolant all the way to the top and kind of coming out ?? , or is it down low and you can see the fins ???

    The cap is 1.1 bar , they do not hold much pressure , if they go bad , it will easily puke out .... I would switch to a 1.6 or 1.8 bar cap .......

    I still think you have a clogged jet contributing to this , but you did not mention it backfiring , so its possible it is still clear , but any popping would indicate a blocked pilot jet .......... but bad gas won't burn worth crap , so you need to get that stuff out of the bike first ...... and yes , a cap can go bad from just sitting ....
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • Ande780
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by Ande780 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:26 am

    So you think that having gas that old it could cause it to over heat in just a couple seconds? And I can get a new radiator cap but I don’t believe that would completely fix the issue. I’ll try and get all the gas out of the carb and tank and then re-try it. Is there anything you’d recommend I do with the pilot jet?
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  • Ande780
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by Ande780 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:28 am

    So you think that having that old of gas it could cause the bike to over heat that fast? I can get a new cap but I don’t believe that would completely fix the problem. Also is there anything I should do with the pilot jet? And what’s the best method to drain all the fuel?
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  • Back2-2
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by Back2-2 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:37 pm

    Your overheating problem is not the fuel. If you do want the remove and clean the pilot jet it can be done by rotating the carburetor so the bowl [ bottom ] is facing the left side of the bike.

    My guess is - You either have a blown head gasket causing the pressure to force the coolant out of the system or possibly a water pump failure. I recommend a pressure check of the coolant system. Pressure checking tools are readily available at places like Harbor Freight or Ebay.
    If you fire the bike up with the radiator cap off you can check the coolant flow by looking in the radiator neck and see the fluid flowing. If it immediately starts to forcibly come out of the radiator you have a pressure building up forcing the coolant out. That would either be coming from a head gasket allowing engine compression to get into the coolant system or blockage on the return radiator hose. An engine is not able to over heat in seconds. It has to be either flow or pressure related.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by JimDirt » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:56 pm

    A bad radiator cap and old crappy gas (if gas is over 2 months old , its OLD for these bikes and should be drained) .... I think your issues are a combination of all these things ....... or more

    You also need to check for bubbles in the radiator while running , if it has bubbles , then I would guess a blown head gasket would be the only other thing making it overheat so quickly .........

    The best bet on the Pilot Jet is to just replace it , they are only about $6.00 and pretty much any bike shop should have one in stock .. cleaning them does not always clear them ....

    To drain the tank , pull the gas line from the carb , and tilt it down into a can , turn on the fuel valve and drain it , , for the carb , you will either have a small screw on the left side of the bowl

    Shown here:

    Image

    If it does not have a screw there (some don't) , then drain it from this plug on the bottom of the bowl , it takes a 17mm box end wrench :

    Image
    Last edited by JimDirt on Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by JimDirt » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:58 pm

    Neil beat me to it , on the head gasket thought ..... I take too long to type :-~
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Ande780
    Posts: 21
    Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:48 pm

    Re: Bike over heating

    by Ande780 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:07 pm

    Ok thanks guys. I did notice when I ran the bike with the radiator cap off the coolant was sloshing violently and spitting out over the top of the neck. I may end up just taking it to the dealership but I might try and clean the pilot jet and inspect the head gasket first
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by JimDirt » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:02 pm

    If it was spitting coolant , then yea .... The head gasket is likely the majority of the issue ..... The carb stuff , is just because sitting for that long , the stuff needs to be addressed ..... but with this additional info , the main issue is the head gasket .... If you are mechanically inclined , we can walk you thru a head gasket replacement .... it can be done without removing the engine , and only requires a few specialty tools (like a Flywheel puller so you can replace the Timing Chain while you have it apart) and a Torque Wrench ...but other than that , it is mainly basic metric tools to do the job .... and it will save you a couple hundred in labor costs .....
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Ande780
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    Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:48 pm

    Re: Bike over heating

    by Ande780 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:13 pm

    Is there a good video that shows step by step how to do it? Also, is there anything I can do to 100% verify that it is the head gasket other then just looking at it when it’s apart?
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  • Back2-2
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by Back2-2 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:23 pm

    Yes, a pressure check on the cooling system would 100% confirm a bad head gasket.

    It's not your pilot jet....
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Ande780
    Posts: 21
    Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:48 pm

    Re: Bike over heating

    by Ande780 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:29 pm

    Awesome, Thankyou guys! Oh, one more question, Do I need to drop all the oil and coolant to do the pressure test?
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  • Back2-2
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    Re: Bike over heating

    by Back2-2 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:43 am

    No. You pressure check the cooling system with the coolant in the radiators. You are just going the pump the system up to say 15 or 16 lbs of pressure and see if it holds as it is supposed to. If it does not hold that tells you there is a leak somewhere. It can be leaking into the engine by way of the head gasket or leaking into the transmission side by way of the water pump seal.
    The oil can still be in the engine and transmission. You can also do a pressure check of the radiator cap. I recall you have to be a little creative with the adapters provided to check it.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200

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