CRF250 engine noise
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    JimDirt
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by JimDirt » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:45 am

    Thanks for the update , it does still seem noisy , it still sounds like a timing chain type noise to me.....Good Luck , hopefully you get it resolved , if not , then we will definitely need a video of the 500AF conversion and fire up !! 8-[
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:01 pm

    Thanks for the update , it does still seem noisy , it still sounds like a timing chain type noise to me.....Good Luck , hopefully you get it resolved , if not , then we will definitely need a video of the 500AF conversion and fire up !! 8-[
    Ya I am also wondering if it is the the decompression mechanism? I have a manual chain tensioner and a new timing chain. I have just re checked my clearances and they seem to be out of whack again, will re shim again....I have done them a number of times on my 450 with no issues, I am wondering if the shop that re cut my seat screwed up or something now? I was told my valve guides were marginal before but I wouldn't think that would make this much noise or make valve lash change.

    I may be a procrastinator but I am a stubborn one. The dream is to get this engine running good, sell it to finance the 500 upgrade. Then sell my 450 and get a 250 2 stroke to run my hare scrambles in and use the 500 as a play/snow bike conversion. I have a couple of buddies who go to the mountains every year.

    How is the wrist problems you incurred before coming along?
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    JimDirt
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by JimDirt » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:15 am

    Good to hear your persistent , the valves definitely should not move this quickly , so something is up , did they use Stainless or TI ?? , the guides i don't think would make noise , but could cause premature wear on the valve by it flopping around .. , but the issue is most likely in the valve train , weather it be timing chain or the valves themselves , or even the cam

    As for the wrist , its still messed up , i have almost no upward hand movement and no ability to make a fist or fully straighten my fingers , from what the Dr.'s said its not going to get much better , i am getting a Allsport Dynamics Wrist brace made in about a week , so hopefully i will be able to ride after that , as it will offer support and stability in my wrist , which without it , i don't know if i will be able to ride with any kind of safety , but my grip strength and clutch lever ability is fairly compromised and will never be as it was , so i will have to see how that part works out , i just want to get back on the bike before i hit 58 (about 4 months) i am going on about 9 months since the injury so i will see what my abilities are and if i have a shot at racing again , or if i am destined to just trail ride from here on out , i guess if i can still ride its a plus , but i want to get back on the track and back up to my old speed if possible

    I will most likely need at least 1 more surgery , possibly 2 , to get "some" more finger movement and lessen the pain and get my hand back up into position which will require a partial fusion , my hand is about half the thickness of my arm too low , so its like this -_ where it should be -- , so its painful to try to bend my hand upwards and also limits the upward movement to almost nothing , imagine holding onto a rail while walking stairs and only being able to touch your finger tips to the rail because your hand wont bend enough to put it flat on the rail , or having to twist your entire torso and arm to open a door because you can't twist a door knob to open a door , it really sucks and could be dangerous if i fall and put my hand out to brake my fall..............Anyway , long story long , i am hoping to ride soon and see where i stand and find out what my limitations will be , i have been waiting for this for almost 9 months , i just want to get back to riding....and get my life back to somewhat normal , i know Ken Roczen must be going thru the same feelings , as his injury was very similar to mine
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:57 am

    Yes, definitely in the valve train. Going to scrutinize the rocker and cam shaft although the cam can't really have an issue can it?
    New stainless valves and springs installed. I am questioning the valve seat cut I had done, they installed the valves and asked me for the lash measurements and got intake and exhaust backwards #-o . '
    Good luck with the wrist, my brother in law had a major leg injury (not moto related) 2 years ago and is still going for surgeries and rehab and not working. Doc said 5 years ago he would have been an amputee.

    I wonder if Roczen will ever be back to full form again? He has posted some gnarly pictures of his wrist. Possibly next supercross season? Can't see him doing nationals.
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by JimDirt » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:01 pm

    The cam itself could have wear on the lobes , but you would be able to easily see that , if the bearings are seizing up , it could cause issues , and may have some effect on lash , or if the seat is not cut correctly , as you might think , it could be wearing the face of the valve and that would of course change your lash

    Yea , a wrist injury is what caused Rick Johnson's career to end prematurely , and its definitely (from experience) going to hinder not only Kenny's performance , but his everyday life as well , the wrist is one of the worst injuries you can have if you ride , next to a broken neck or back , of which i have also done both , but the wrist is by far the most limiting and painful , at least it has been for me...........As a Roczen fan , i hope he can get back to 100% , but i think realistically in his case it may be closer to 80%-90% , and he has the best Dr.'s money can buy for his specific injuries , i could only dream of having the care he has received for my injury , hopefully , in a week or so when i get the brace made , i will be at least able to do some track riding , and see where i stand as far as pain level and the ability to hold on for extended periods , i can only imagine at Kenny's level of fitness needed to compete what he will be going thru mentally and physically to overcome that injury ....
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Wed May 03, 2017 1:09 pm

    Okay.....said it before but I am positive the valves are good. The cam chain is good, I ran the bike and loosened the chain with the manual tensioner then tightened it and there was absolutely no change in the noise. I ran it longer than I normally did before to try and zero in on it better and it seems to be coming from the RH side of the case. I even pulled the spark plug and turned the engine over with a 1/2 inch drill and hex head socket to see if I could get anything without the engine running, nothing.

    While I had the plug out of the side where the timing marks are I thought I could see grey in oil on that gear. Could I be missing a thrust washer somewhere on the RH side and its digging into the case. I will be dropping the oil tonight and pulling the clutch side apart. I am having a hard time finding a blown up version of how all the gears on the RH side go.

    I did put a 2006 RH clutch/water pump housing on so maybe something is a little different there and is rubbing? ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
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    JimDirt
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by JimDirt » Thu May 04, 2017 3:12 pm

    I wonder if it could be a worn clutch hub making the noise , if the noise is located on the right side , there is the water pump and clutch that would be the most obvious , then it could also be the 1 way gear for the kick start behind the clutch , so at least this gives you some more things to look at and see how they are , you have already eliminated the timing chain and valves , so you can move on to the next in line which would be the clutch and surrounding parts/gears , wish i had better answers for you , but without being there , its more of a trial and error , process of elimination route now
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Thu May 04, 2017 6:20 pm

    Hey the more ideas the better. I had a suspicion it was there before but everything was kind of pointing to the valve train. I got myself off track thinking too much.

    Will pull the side off and look it all over, the clutch plates are all fresh, the bearing etc on the clutch felt ok before but will double check. The problem is I bought this thing with a bad crank so it didn't ever run for me....thats the risk you take.
    will keep digging and measuring.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by JimDirt » Thu May 04, 2017 7:15 pm

    Yep that's about all you can do , make sure the clutch basket does not wobble any , if so , that may be your noise

    That is the problem with buying used ..... sometimes you get a gem at a real good deal (as i did with my 02R) , and sometimes you buy a money pit that was beat into the ground and fluffed up to make it look good for the sale , then you get stuck with trying to fix everything that never was maintained or was not fixed correctly by the prior owner , on the good side , when your done you will know exactly what you have and the maintenance will be far less expensive once you get the mess cleaned up ... and you will end up with a nice bike ....a expensive bike , but a nice one that will give you lots of enjoyment when you finally do get to start riding it .......
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Mon May 22, 2017 8:04 am

    I think I have zeroed in finally on the noise.
    So last night I took the clutch side apart, pulled the clutch (which was not wobbly) off and started inspecting gears. From what I can tell is at some point in this things life the balancer gear came off. There are marks on the case showing where it jammed. When turning the engine over with a wrench I could feel the gear teeth at a certain point on the rotation.
    I marked the spot. At that spot there is no free play as compared to the other part of the gear which has very little free play.

    I hooked up my drill to run the crank and balancer alone and there was a definite noise. I will put the vid up later.

    Not sure if the gear is bent or the teeth are just messed up. It does not appear that the balancer is bent.

    I was correct before in location of the noise being by the water pump.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by JimDirt » Mon May 22, 2017 5:11 pm

    Have you disconnected the balancer shaft completely and spun it by itself to make sure the shaft is not bent and causing the binding ?? (disconnecting it from both sides of the engine)
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Tue May 23, 2017 3:08 pm

    Yes, I did that before I changed the bearings on it. It slides in and out of the bearings easily as well. While I do not have dial indicator I cannot see any run out. I would have assumed if something jammed a gear that hard it would have broken the gear and not bent the balancer. I marked the teeth on the gears so I could inspect that area when the gear is off. there is some damage to the teeth so I filed them to give me a little free play when it is installed. The noise seems to be less after that while spinning it with a drill. Will give it a fire up tonight hopefully. For got to video the noise.
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Thu May 25, 2017 7:04 am

    I also think the balancer gear is the one that came off so the shaft should be ok.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by JimDirt » Fri May 26, 2017 7:45 pm

    Just for the sake of asking , have you gone over the Water Pump to see if its the noise ?
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    Re: CRF250 engine noise

    by scooterbikes » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:21 am

    So it seems I like taking 6 months off at a time here. :-~
    I just swapped my primary bike, a 450 for a 250 2 stroke, so I am back on the smoke again.

    Anyhow back on topic:
    I ordered and received an Amazon dial indicator and magnetic base.
    I checked the counter balancer gear for trueness on the bike while turning it over and it appeared to be warped. :/
    I ordered a fresh gear from Honda and just have it installed, running on old crappy gas for a few seconds at a time it sounds like its going to be solved. =DD
    There were marks on the case where it looked like a gear had come off and they kind of matched up with the balancer gear, low and behold that was it. I had my suspicions at first but like a dummy didn't listen to my inner perfectionist mechanic....I should know better by now.....
    Video:

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