Struggles to start
  • slicnic
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    Struggles to start

    by slicnic » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:38 pm

    Alright so my 07 450x has been hard to start lately , valves are all good , new piston recently and jetting is all good now finally, new battery , bike runs fine wen it's goin just doesn't like to start easily which is not like a Honda ! . I found that it was kicking over easily with the kick starter so I opened up the de comp gap so it gives less decompression but still seems to kick over easy, and with the button it sort of winds a bit then sounds like its winding over but not turning the engine to start it I have to kick and button at the same time , any ideas where to start? But I'm positive the valves and jetting are fine and has a new plug which has the nice tan colour on it . ??
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    riddler9
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    by riddler9 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:02 pm

    in the past others have correctly pointed to the increased leg strength earned by kicking a bike that does not want to start as a reason that is feels like a bike is low on compression. A new battery will have a similar result. Make sure you did not change the gap to beyond what spec is for your engine.

    You did not mention what condition the carb is in. Are the jets clean? did you have dirt in the bowl? does full or partial choke or hot start have an impact? differences in starting cold vs. warm?
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  • slicnic
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    by slicnic » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:59 pm

    Well I think the spec gap is 0.35 mm and last time I checked it I set it to 0.40 mm to give it less of a decompression because it seemed to be winding over far too easy before , it's not the carb because I've just recently replaced nearly everything in it and it more sounds like it is struggling to wind over, another thing too is wen it's warm and riding it, if I stall and try to start in gear with clutch in it never starts it struggles to wind over, clutch is new too by the way, always have to find neutral again which can be annoying half way up a hill
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    riddler9
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    by riddler9 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:56 pm

    Sorry, i am not following - some of your post says it easy too easy to kick/winds easily but you also say it is struggling to wind over?? Are you saying it cranks easily when in neutral but not with it in gear and the clutch disengaged?
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  • slicnic
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    by slicnic » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:27 am

    Yeah that's it jus kicking it with the kick starter it feels like it has no compression but wen it is running its perfectly fine, and trying to start it in gear with the clutch held in it feels like the starter motor is working harder, could something be wrong with that little decompression thing on the cam like maybe the spring on it is too strong or weak or something ?
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    JimDirt
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    by JimDirt » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:14 am

    That is NORMAL , have you ever watched MX or SX ?? , when the riders try to start the bikes , if its in gear they will sit there and kick and kick , if they put it in neutral , it usually starts right up

    This is because of the clutch drag , since the motor is not running , the clutch will drag and slow the RPM's of the motor , and feel like there is more compression than there is , including with the E-Start

    Though it is possible to start when in gear (with the E-Start ,as i do it all the time , the difficulty in starting increases dramatically

    You need to set the gap EXACTLY what the manual says , not 1 up or 1 down , it does not say 35mm +/- 1 or 3 , it says 35mm , this will ensure easier starting (as in the bike starting faster/easier , not easier to kick)

    Also is your battery bad or weak ?? , i am wondering why are you starting with the kick starter all the time for anyway ?? , the E-Start will start the bike much faster and easier than kick starting under every circumstance , unless either your starter brushes are worn or your battery is weak

    I have used the kick starter maybe 5 times in 7 years on my X , now that i have a Shorai battery , i never have starting issues and the bike starts easier than it did with a normal battery

    Also when you say the valves are good , have you had to adjust them a few times yet ?? , if so then the valves are not OK and are on their way to needing or are already at replacement specs , and that is your starting problem
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  • Kap
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    by Kap » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:59 am

    Clean your jets.
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    hazard88
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    by hazard88 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:50 pm

    Sounds like valve issue eventhough you say they are good. What was the intake gap measured at and when was the last time you shimmed them. Unless they are SS once you start shimming them they go quickly.
  • slicnic
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    by slicnic » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:03 am

    I think I've only shimmed them once maybe twice but they are the second set of intake valves I've put in my bike n are stainless they seem to be right considering they have done close to 10,000 kms now , however the exhaust valves are still the stock ones n have done about 14,000 kms lol ,which I know is a lot but the clearances on them are still good too n I've probably only shimmed them 2 or 3 times. I have read elsewhere that the rocker arm on the exhaust valves causes the valve guides to wear n also the seats on them get pitted which could be my problem
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    crfsonly
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    by crfsonly » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:50 am

    i'm a bit unsure if you replied indicating your valve clearances are in spec or not. if they are in spec and the valve seats are in tack then the starting issues are not a result of lack of compression through the valves. have you verified valve clearance?
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  • slicnic
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    by slicnic » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:26 pm

    Yeah the exhaust valves were spot on and the inlets were in spec too , the thing is when the bike is goin it runs perfect no stalling or bogging anywhere that could indicate jetting, and no loss of power that could mean compression , jus that say if I stall it half way up a hill or on flat ground even it just struggles to start hot start lever or not , if I stop n wait a few mins then it starts easier but it's just annoying if I stop the bike n then want to go again it's hard to start.
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    crfsonly
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    by crfsonly » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:09 pm

    then inspect the hot start circuit. a hot motor starts better with a lean mixture. the hot start leans out the mixture. if the hot start looks good then check the floating valve plate and seal.
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  • slicnic
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    by slicnic » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:01 pm

    ok i reckon i know wat the problem is ,i removed the right crankcase cover and the starter clutch in there is supposed to only freespin one way but i found that by playing around with it and jiggling it i can sometimes get it to spin the other way which im sure is the reason my starter motor was spinning but not starting the engine. now this clutch setup is on the crankshaft and my question is ,is the bolt on the end left hand thread? and is there any special trick to removing it? i had a bit of a go at it and couldn't budge it i don't wanna break anything!
  • ntrescue@yahoo.com
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    Re: Struggles to start

    by ntrescue@yahoo.com » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:45 pm

    Does anyone know if it's a left or right hand thread?

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